𝗖𝗵𝗿𝗶𝘀 𝗦𝗶𝗺𝗺𝗮𝗻𝗰𝗲
Hello. How’s it going guys?
Speaker
Hello. Hello.
𝗔𝗻𝗻𝗮 𝗠𝗮𝗿𝘀𝗱𝗲𝗻
The feeling you face, Chris.
Speaker 3
I mean, I don’t. Look like it. These are fat fingers. When it comes to using a using a trackpad. Today. Welcome everybody to the to the webinar. They’ve got Anna Marsden and Ross tavendale. Hello. Hello. And how’s your Monday going, Ross?
Speaker
Hello. Hello.
𝗥𝗼𝘀𝘀 𝗧𝗮𝘃𝗲𝗻𝗱𝗮𝗹𝗲
It’s going good. Thank you. Just seeing a very interesting chat because I just looked at my calendar for the week and we have 17 interviews lined up so could not be a better topic. Yeah, we done four, we done 4 today.
Speaker 3
Oh whoa this.
𝗖𝗵𝗿𝗶𝘀 𝗦𝗶𝗺𝗺𝗮𝗻𝗰𝗲
This is going to be a great topic. Especially with with some of the Nuggets. That that, I know Anna’s got for a bit a bit. Later as well, and there’s there’s plenty for.
Speaker
Us to talk.
𝗖𝗵𝗿𝗶𝘀 𝗦𝗶𝗺𝗺𝗮𝗻𝗰𝗲
About I think we’ve made that.
𝗥𝗼𝘀𝘀 𝗧𝗮𝘃𝗲𝗻𝗱𝗮𝗹𝗲
Will be dropping knowledge bombs in between me, quietly weeping in the corner because the amount of calls that we. Need to do.
𝗖𝗵𝗿𝗶𝘀 𝗦𝗶𝗺𝗺𝗮𝗻𝗰𝗲
I I I’ve never forget like the first time the first person I ever interviewed was like there was no structure, no planning. I just needed someone and someone just happened to. Be there at the. Time and. I was like, it’s Monday. You start Monday.
Speaker 3
And that was it. And I regretted it ever since.
𝗖𝗵𝗿𝗶𝘀 𝗦𝗶𝗺𝗺𝗮𝗻𝗰𝗲
But not because he was a bad person, because I never really learned anything about it like the. Hiring bit. How’s your Monday going?
Speaker 3
I know you were just.
𝗖𝗵𝗿𝗶𝘀 𝗦𝗶𝗺𝗺𝗮𝗻𝗰𝗲
Telling me off camera but.
𝗔𝗻𝗻𝗮 𝗠𝗮𝗿𝘀𝗱𝗲𝗻
Well, I haven’t been interviewing lots of people, but I’ve had a really good one day I’ve been beavering away and. You know, getting down my To Do List but not not the rich scheme of knowledge that Ross is gonna be about. All the things that you. Should and shouldn’t put on his CV.
Speaker 3
Yes, Ross, how?
𝗖𝗵𝗿𝗶𝘀 𝗦𝗶𝗺𝗺𝗮𝗻𝗰𝗲
How many interviews have you done where the CV has said something along the lines of I can work well in the? Team but also. Work independently or I’m self motivated but also like direction things like.
𝗥𝗼𝘀𝘀 𝗧𝗮𝘃𝗲𝗻𝗱𝗮𝗹𝗲
Yeah, it’s really interesting. The amount of people, the communication is a good one, right? Because people just put in as a soft skill. They’d be like, excellent communicator, but also can’t use a calendar link. And like there’s something not right there.
𝗔𝗻𝗻𝗮 𝗠𝗮𝗿𝘀𝗱𝗲𝗻
Surely it is separate from communication skills there like force that’s there?
𝗥𝗼𝘀𝘀 𝗧𝗮𝘃𝗲𝗻𝗱𝗮𝗹𝗲
Yeah, well, you would.
𝗔𝗻𝗻𝗮 𝗠𝗮𝗿𝘀𝗱𝗲𝗻
That’s all of the different skill, though.
𝗥𝗼𝘀𝘀 𝗧𝗮𝘃𝗲𝗻𝗱𝗮𝗹𝗲
Perhaps I’m not compartmentalising it correctly. Yeah, I I find it quite interesting. We we hire a lot of PR people who are communications experts. And when it comes to communicating that they can’t make meetings or want to change meetings, it’s not quite there. So yeah, it’s a fascinating little journey. Going through from hiring juniors to meds to to seniors, so I’m looking forward to talking about it. OK.
𝗖𝗵𝗿𝗶𝘀 𝗦𝗶𝗺𝗺𝗮𝗻𝗰𝗲
Awesome. So I I reckon we should get get started on this and any. But you guys listening in or watching the repeat if you’re watching the repeat you can always e-mail us with some questions or go into the community and ask in there. But any questions throughout, just pop them in. The chat, and then I’ll I’ll I’ll add. Them onto the screen as we go. And we’ll see what we do.
Speaker
Seller hit it go.
𝗖𝗵𝗿𝗶𝘀 𝗦𝗶𝗺𝗺𝗮𝗻𝗰𝗲
Whoops, I think the first thing is we probably ought to talk about what the right bums on the right seats mean, because it doesn’t just mean that like people necessarily in a business they the right people, a operations director role might be available, and you might. Look for an operations director. But the right bum on that seat isn’t just anyone, and I think that it’s really hard to distinguish who the right bum is, as it were for the right seat. And they’re not. All created equal.
Speaker
Well it.
𝗖𝗵𝗿𝗶𝘀 𝗦𝗶𝗺𝗺𝗮𝗻𝗰𝗲
Russ, I know that you’ve you’ve. You’ve gone through. A relatively strong process around this in the last few months and I think it’s those 17 interviews will be a, a, a good test as well this week to sort of see how that that feels, how have you, how have you worked out in your in your own mind like? What the right? Person might be for the right role.
𝗥𝗼𝘀𝘀 𝗧𝗮𝘃𝗲𝗻𝗱𝗮𝗹𝗲
Yeah. So I think it really starts with understanding what your processes are and what you’re actually delivering to the client in the end. And I like taking people through the kind of three basic things is like, do they want to do they get it? And are they capable? And once you do that to your team and then put it? Against your. Process is you very quickly realised that well, one of the things we realised with our team was you know we were people had let’s say 4 hours of calls and three hours of calls in a day and five hours of work. Time and and that would we call that an account manager, but the problem is if that is, you know, 45 minutes, then break of an hour and a bit and then another 40 minutes. You don’t actually have five hours. You have five hours sparse hours. So then you start working at. Well, actually those are different jobs and then you start building out these job descriptions and you start. Building out departments so settingup.org chart at the start to do the right seats is huge. Such an important.
𝗖𝗵𝗿𝗶𝘀 𝗦𝗶𝗺𝗺𝗮𝗻𝗰𝗲
And and the the. The knowing of who you want in the business is quite important, isn’t it? And you, you you’re massively into your your personality profiles the and the genetics thing and I think you you know way better than Ross and I combined that kind of personality fit requirement.
𝗔𝗻𝗻𝗮 𝗠𝗮𝗿𝘀𝗱𝗲𝗻
Yeah, I think it’s really easy to to focus on the, the kind of people that we want around, but we need to focus and spend time, as Ross has said about the skills that we need and what is the make up of the. Job. What’s the? Make up of the task and we were just saying actually before we. Started about, you know, the busy days and multitasking. Actually, Boss was saying. About the calendar. We think we’re living in a world where we’ve. Got to manage our own admin. We’ve got to manage our own to do lists as well as speaking to clients and speaking to our internal staff, and if we don’t have those organisational skills. That’s a real problem, so I think it’s about people, but it’s about. The the skills. That people bring for that specific seat and the seat, as Ross said, you need to have a very good idea what exactly you want for that seat. And if you don’t start with that, it’s really easy to get the wrong people. It’s really easy.
𝗖𝗵𝗿𝗶𝘀 𝗦𝗶𝗺𝗺𝗮𝗻𝗰𝗲
And I think that me, know yourself, I didn’t engineer that question to.
Speaker
Bring it here.
𝗖𝗵𝗿𝗶𝘀 𝗦𝗶𝗺𝗺𝗮𝗻𝗰𝗲
Forgot that this was the first slide, but yeah it did work. It was really good. We’ll cut that from from the, from the post. And I think knowing who. You are as a leader is. Really, really important when it comes to hiring. Personally, I think that there there’s times in history where I’ve been a really bad employer because I hired the wrong people, not because it’s their fault, but because I I picked the wrong people. I didn’t know what I needed or I wasn’t able to articulate properly what I wanted from them because I wasn’t sure what that. And I think knowing yourself is key, but having kind of like some purpose, purpose, purpose. For your agency is absolutely essential. And I know that you can go round the houses building a. Purpose for your agency, yeah. And it can all sound the.
𝗔𝗻𝗻𝗮 𝗠𝗮𝗿𝘀𝗱𝗲𝗻
Same I definitely think when I know we’re starting our agency, we’re ten years in now. And we should know better cause we’re married. So I knew the. Right man for the. Right. Seat there or did? I sometimes we can be wooed by someone who we like or. Who’s like us? And we have to be mindful of that because if you’re picking people because you like them and they’re similar to you, you’ll have a massive blind spot about what? What you’re not good at, and so you don’t wanna amplify your strengths. And then by doing that, amplify your weaknesses. So yeah, liking people and thinking that they’re. They’re they’re nice is different than looking at the skills that they’ve got to bring that will fit into your company purpose, your mission. And as Ross says, what you’re actually delivering to your, to your end.
𝗥𝗼𝘀𝘀 𝗧𝗮𝘃𝗲𝗻𝗱𝗮𝗹𝗲
So add something onto that as well, and one of the things that was said to me jokingly and we were talking about like likability and competence. We love our matrix in marketing, so if. You imagine your.
𝗔𝗻𝗻𝗮 𝗠𝗮𝗿𝘀𝗱𝗲𝗻
Oh, God, don’t wait.
𝗥𝗼𝘀𝘀 𝗧𝗮𝘃𝗲𝗻𝗱𝗮𝗹𝗲
Classic global. Yeah, yeah, your your classic 4 box matrix, and it’s likability versus competency. So high into the right, highly likeable, highly competent. Depending on the type of business you have, you might find it quite hard to hire those people because Facebook and Google are hiring those people. So you have to have commence to it things for those people to want to work with you. So you want to, but then you have to think, well, if we can’t get the app. To 10 out of 10 for both. Where do we want to sit it? And I I find highly likeable and competent enough. Then train the compete, knowing that there’s a difference between skills and knowledge as long as they have skills, we can give them the knowledge as a bad thing.
𝗔𝗻𝗻𝗮 𝗠𝗮𝗿𝘀𝗱𝗲𝗻
Yeah, I think that’s really important because I’m, I’m a trainer by trade professional trainer, been doing that for 20 years. And you can learn so much and having an open mind being having an approach to learning is just as valuable as already knowing the stuff. Yeah. So if you’ve got someone that’s highly high on the likability scale and competent enough, but eager to learn specific skills that you need in the agency, then that. Is truly just as important as someone that’s already come with the skills, but maybe doesn’t necessarily have. The right fit for. Your mission for your company?
𝗖𝗵𝗿𝗶𝘀 𝗦𝗶𝗺𝗺𝗮𝗻𝗰𝗲
And and as you said a moment ago, Ross, that get it one it capable bit that the the get it is relatively easy if the if the JD’s clear they want it has to connect to being there Monday to Friday or Thursday in your case for us and nine to five you know.
𝗥𝗼𝘀𝘀 𝗧𝗮𝘃𝗲𝗻𝗱𝗮𝗹𝗲
Yeah. And one of the the things that goes with this little matrix is, well, what if you get someone who’s like, highly capable but not very likeable and like we just. Call them freelancers, but yeah. Yeah. So it’s interesting. You mentioned about, you’ll need to be careful. You’ve got blind spots because you just hire people just like you. And then that just whatever personal neuroses you have as a leader that you’re not aware of, well, go through your team. That’s why it’s so important to have multiple people. In the hiring process. And that’s something that we do at stage 1/2 and three, so that it’s not just I kind of like that person, especially if they’ve seen any of my video content. One way to get hired from past Ross Straight away was flatter me about seeing some of my videos and like hired terrible.
𝗖𝗵𝗿𝗶𝘀 𝗦𝗶𝗺𝗺𝗮𝗻𝗰𝗲
Fair and it it it, it doesn’t, it’s. Not hard, though, is it as well? Because in a sense I I found this person in the past. You’ve there’s a lot at. Stake because it’s your agency. It’s your money, your cash flow and and it’s not hard to to get flattered in the sense because.
Speaker
Your your guards.
𝗖𝗵𝗿𝗶𝘀 𝗦𝗶𝗺𝗺𝗮𝗻𝗰𝗲
Are up massively except for the.
Speaker 3
You go on.
𝗖𝗵𝗿𝗶𝘀 𝗦𝗶𝗺𝗺𝗮𝗻𝗰𝗲
And and you know you’re looking for someone. To tick loads of boxes but they say. Oh, I saw you. On that video a few times. For us, that was great. You’re gonna go. Ohh and then it all drops down.
𝗥𝗼𝘀𝘀 𝗧𝗮𝘃𝗲𝗻𝗱𝗮𝗹𝗲
And that’s why you need someone with you in those meetings. Who knows you in real life and is totally not enamoured by anything you do so that they balance that you go out quite nicely.
𝗖𝗵𝗿𝗶𝘀 𝗦𝗶𝗺𝗺𝗮𝗻𝗰𝗲
It’s actually reasonable.
𝗔𝗻𝗻𝗮 𝗠𝗮𝗿𝘀𝗱𝗲𝗻
You mentioned Chris before about energy genetics and personality tools, psychometrics that we can use, and there’s certain psychometrics that you can use for recruitment. Emergenetics is not one of those, because people tend to answer the questions in a a, a job hunter kind of frame of mind. So they’re trying to project what they think someone. Here, so rather than using a tool to to to fill that seat for you, it’s it’s much more useful to again know yourself. Know what your strengths are? Know what your go to kind of. Defaults are rather than trying to think about who the person’s coming in, what they’re bringing before they’ve got the job before they’ve got. To be part of your team.
𝗖𝗵𝗿𝗶𝘀 𝗦𝗶𝗺𝗺𝗮𝗻𝗰𝗲
Yeah, and and and often and and where the. Where things like the psychometric stuff like the image genetics things comes in, I think there’s and there’s a huge amount. Of value in. Doing that for just yourself if. Nothing else and like having done that with you relatively recently, quite shocked, but also not shocked at the same time that lots of things and knowing some of those things now has made it a little bit easier for me to realise, OK, I’m gonna have to put my hand deeper in my pocket to get someone who can fit that thing that I’m. I know exactly what it is, but it uses more energy than than I’ve got to do it.
𝗔𝗻𝗻𝗮 𝗠𝗮𝗿𝘀𝗱𝗲𝗻
I’m not yet something is.
𝗥𝗼𝘀𝘀 𝗧𝗮𝘃𝗲𝗻𝗱𝗮𝗹𝗲
I just said you, my kids did. Going on.
𝗔𝗻𝗻𝗮 𝗠𝗮𝗿𝘀𝗱𝗲𝗻
No, you go. Don’t make me.
Speaker
There you go. You right.
𝗔𝗻𝗻𝗮 𝗠𝗮𝗿𝘀𝗱𝗲𝗻
Cry about it. Go.
𝗥𝗼𝘀𝘀 𝗧𝗮𝘃𝗲𝗻𝗱𝗮𝗹𝗲
I was just gonna say my my favourite joke and I appreciate these are not personality tests, but there’s a joke about personality tests are like. So at work, all of the they’ve just given me a personality test at work. How did it go? Oh, I feel the the idea being that I didn’t have a personality to. To begin with, sorry, bad joke. I’m here.
𝗔𝗻𝗻𝗮 𝗠𝗮𝗿𝘀𝗱𝗲𝗻
Well, it’s whatever. They wanted me to be and that’s the thing, isn’t it? People when they’re looking to impress you, they’ll try and and and shape. Whether it’s their entire personality trying to shape their answers to please you because they’re seeking something from you, like a job, but yeah, all of the things.
𝗖𝗵𝗿𝗶𝘀 𝗦𝗶𝗺𝗺𝗮𝗻𝗰𝗲
Money and the job and the prestige.
𝗔𝗻𝗻𝗮 𝗠𝗮𝗿𝘀𝗱𝗲𝗻
Yeah, but knowing yourself, that’s like you say, Chris, knowing that ohh. I tend to get way more energy out of working in a team or when I’m structuring things going through my To Do List. And, you know, pitching and performing and that stuff. When I’m sitting in front of my spreadsheets and I’m looking front in front of my numbers, I need quiet. I need a bit more energy. Great. If we had someone that showed that energy about those analytical type skills. But again, mindful to not use those tools for.
𝗖𝗵𝗿𝗶𝘀 𝗦𝗶𝗺𝗺𝗮𝗻𝗰𝗲
Agreed, agreed. And I think having having those.
Speaker 3
Having those tools.
𝗖𝗵𝗿𝗶𝘀 𝗦𝗶𝗺𝗺𝗮𝗻𝗰𝗲
As a key but. Pretending that you’re something that you’re not is really not. And and I don’t know how many agencies I’ve spoken. To that. Ohh yeah, we’ve got a really good. Culture, we do like pizza and beer every Thursday.
𝗥𝗼𝘀𝘀 𝗧𝗮𝘃𝗲𝗻𝗱𝗮𝗹𝗲
Wait, you tell me that’s not enough? Ohh.
Speaker
No, sorry you saved. That’s that’s awkward.
Speaker 3
A few quid on the on. The on the delivery orders for the for. The hybrid team.
𝗥𝗼𝘀𝘀 𝗧𝗮𝘃𝗲𝗻𝗱𝗮𝗹𝗲
Yeah. Yeah. It’s hard to synchronise it across multiple countries, everyone getting their pizza at the same time.
Speaker
I think.
𝗖𝗵𝗿𝗶𝘀 𝗦𝗶𝗺𝗺𝗮𝗻𝗰𝗲
Well, something like this. That’s for sure and.
𝗔𝗻𝗻𝗮 𝗠𝗮𝗿𝘀𝗱𝗲𝗻
So who’s winning there? They getting pizza and breakfast let. Me. Just that’s true.
𝗖𝗵𝗿𝗶𝘀 𝗦𝗶𝗺𝗺𝗮𝗻𝗰𝗲
It is so I think culture is often thrown around a little bit too much in in organisations these days, especially service business. Because people like me walk around and say you need a culture and but they don’t really go into it and it’s like a read this chapter of a book and you’ll know what it. Means kind of. Thing it it, it really isn’t. And I think that comes back to knowing yourself because you start your agency and run your business because you wanna do it and you’ve got an. Idea of what? That good looks like and and you can kind of find people that that that live with those same kind of expectations those. Same sort of values. The people that that kind of want, what the what? The purpose of the business is, the outcome ultimately is you know this main stakeholders make their cash and maybe exit and things like that but the but the staff will want something tangentially connected to that. So higher income or better prestige or whatever. But the connecting then their. The values and. The purpose to other. People is where you end up. Sort of creating this culture in in. If you try and. Invent it. It’s pretty poor.
𝗔𝗻𝗻𝗮 𝗠𝗮𝗿𝘀𝗱𝗲𝗻
I think culture is all about. And just like you said, all understanding people’s hooks, feeling like you’re creating a space where people can be themselves and belong and be part of your. Tribe to be able to. Do the thing that you’re set up to do. And that in and of itself itself takes much more effort in terms of planning. Exactly what you need. For the people and the bonds on the seats, so you need to do quite a lot of that. Structural thinking in order for the the beer and pizza to make a little bit of a difference. And to make people. Feel like they are central to the culture and the reason detre of the of the agency, yeah.
𝗖𝗵𝗿𝗶𝘀 𝗦𝗶𝗺𝗺𝗮𝗻𝗰𝗲
And it and it’s not a one. And done thing though is it?
𝗔𝗻𝗻𝗮 𝗠𝗮𝗿𝘀𝗱𝗲𝗻
No, not at all. No, no.
𝗖𝗵𝗿𝗶𝘀 𝗦𝗶𝗺𝗺𝗮𝗻𝗰𝗲
You have to kind of work on Rosaria.
𝗥𝗼𝘀𝘀 𝗧𝗮𝘃𝗲𝗻𝗱𝗮𝗹𝗲
The other thing with them, yeah. Big thing with them culture realise is a lot of leaders think it’s something you have to to do, right. There’s some sort of like action to take as the leadership team to like build like they they say things like build a culture. The action isn’t building. I think it, yeah.
Speaker
Take some of those big white boots.
𝗥𝗼𝘀𝘀 𝗧𝗮𝘃𝗲𝗻𝗱𝗮𝗹𝗲
Yeah. And you and your quality of your, exactly. It’s the action is listening really and getting like and doing it so that people feel heard and integrate into the process. And a big part for us is making sure that like values are front and centre and I know it’s it’s. We it’s very cheesy, but we literally have values written on the the what? It’s very like corporate cheesy to put your values in the world, but they. Are so important. In the day-to-day running of things, it’s kind of like your culture is really just your operating system in action. That’s all that is, I think.
𝗖𝗵𝗿𝗶𝘀 𝗦𝗶𝗺𝗺𝗮𝗻𝗰𝗲
I I I agree. I I mean, it is very cheesy, first of all to have them on the wall, but then it means that you’re seeing them every single time you turn around and. Seeing the team in various different. Ways and I think that. Everyone you work with, and if you think of everyone you’ve ever worked with, or even indeed everyone you’ve ever met, and they’re all from somewhere different, they’ve all had different experiences. They’ve all had different upbringings, education. They’ve all grown up in different places with different levels of income and different. Wants and needs and issues and traumas. And well. Stuff. So bringing them all together and expecting them to do the same job is it’s not. It is possible if. The job was put. Burger on thing wait 30 seconds, turn burger over. Wait 30 seconds, stick. It in between 2 slices of. Bread. And if you’re doing anything which requires you. Servicing other people. And providing something to the public. You need something where you kind of have some sort of shared and set of beliefs, and it doesn’t have to be beliefs, as in, you know, cultural beliefs or religious beliefs. But. That’s why.
Speaker
Religion and and national.
𝗖𝗵𝗿𝗶𝘀 𝗦𝗶𝗺𝗺𝗮𝗻𝗰𝗲
Nationalism do quite well because people have this kind. Of shared coalesced. Thing. So if you think that our. Agencies here to be brilliant. And perfect call. Put some numbers on it and then it’s then it’s got some kind of tangibility, but if you build an agency and and you’re trying. To and you build it around. And at least a couple of shared values. Which everyone you hire can have regardless. Of all of the. Other stuff if. Your shared value. Is what’s one of those on your back?
Speaker 3
Wall there, Ross.
𝗥𝗼𝘀𝘀 𝗧𝗮𝘃𝗲𝗻𝗱𝗮𝗹𝗲
Grow together.
𝗖𝗵𝗿𝗶𝘀 𝗦𝗶𝗺𝗺𝗮𝗻𝗰𝗲
Grow together, right, so it doesn’t matter where in the world I’m from, what I’ve done, what any of. My experiences have been. I kind of want that I. Wanna grow with with with, with the, with people? And that’s that’s a really human thing. So I can get behind that doesn’t really matter that I’m from Australia and have a basic education, but taught myself everything. About digital PR. I can be part of the culture.
𝗥𝗼𝘀𝘀 𝗧𝗮𝘃𝗲𝗻𝗱𝗮𝗹𝗲
And The thing is with values I keep interrupting when you go.
𝗔𝗻𝗻𝗮 𝗠𝗮𝗿𝘀𝗱𝗲𝗻
Because we’re waiting for the same beat, you see.
𝗥𝗼𝘀𝘀 𝗧𝗮𝘃𝗲𝗻𝗱𝗮𝗹𝗲
Yeah, with that.
𝗔𝗻𝗻𝗮 𝗠𝗮𝗿𝘀𝗱𝗲𝗻
We’re part of the same tribe. We don’t even knowing it.
𝗥𝗼𝘀𝘀 𝗧𝗮𝘃𝗲𝗻𝗱𝗮𝗹𝗲
Our media training is so good that it’s cancelled all right.
𝗔𝗻𝗻𝗮 𝗠𝗮𝗿𝘀𝗱𝗲𝗻
I’m just gonna. It’s just to say I think. I think in a way it’s too easy to say. Oh, if you’re, you know. Making burgers? It’s not the same. I don’t know, you know, because. Did you ever. See the was it called the founder with Michael Keaton. The McDonald’s story. Have you seen? That film.
Speaker
Yes, that is.
𝗔𝗻𝗻𝗮 𝗠𝗮𝗿𝘀𝗱𝗲𝗻
A great great film to watch as a business owner to see all the things that are that you should be scared of and all the things that work really well. And yes, it’s about systemising your processes, but it’s also about. Delivering on a promise. Of if you are anywhere in. The world you’ll get. The same standard and that was. One of their massive. Kind of missions, but it also pulled them together, as in in terms of culture because they were trying to provide that. So I think it is analogous across different industries, but this idea of team tried togetherness. Especially in this post, you know, lockdown on COVID world and the increase of digital remote workers. We were remote our. Design 10 years we didn’t have an HQ that does something to us in terms of how we work together. So you have to, you have to try even harder to put in those social points. There’s social contact points and you need I. Think to talk about what? What? What binds you together and you need to demonstrate that. And as a leader, you’re not a leader of anyone unless you’re leading other people, so you might be a manager, but you’re not a leader of anyone unless people are listening and following and and agreeing with you and. And so Ross’s point, you can’t do that without listening.
𝗖𝗵𝗿𝗶𝘀 𝗦𝗶𝗺𝗺𝗮𝗻𝗰𝗲
Absolutely afraid of even. Yeah. And and. And that’s very hard to learn in the learning to listen like, you know me quite well, Anna. You know me very well, Ross listening. Learned, but still make mistakes like everyone else.
𝗔𝗻𝗻𝗮 𝗠𝗮𝗿𝘀𝗱𝗲𝗻
You heard of myself.
Speaker
They’re doing that.
𝗔𝗻𝗻𝗮 𝗠𝗮𝗿𝘀𝗱𝗲𝗻
Chris, you’re hurting myself cause you know me.
Speaker 3
Too I think, say, say you know yourself.
𝗖𝗵𝗿𝗶𝘀 𝗦𝗶𝗺𝗺𝗮𝗻𝗰𝗲
You’ve got the culture for the team. You kind of need to know where you’re going as a business. There’s no point. And and I don’t know about you guys, sometimes you you end up hiring and you fire and redundant and refire and hire and et cetera. Not because you’re an *******. Because you’re bad at running something. But because you haven’t actually. Plan several steps in advance and. You know you hire someone who’s going. To do one role and then six months. Later the business. Is different it you, so you need to. Know who what seats exist. When you then know kind of the types of human. Beings that will need to sit on. Them and. A super hard without any kind of strategic planning. But I know, I know you, Ross at Taipei have gone through quite a lot of thinking and effort around getting this right and and and how how did you start that?
𝗥𝗼𝘀𝘀 𝗧𝗮𝘃𝗲𝗻𝗱𝗮𝗹𝗲
Yeah, I mean, the reason why we’ve done this is because you need to take the emotion out of everything and have, like, a an operating system to to follow and you need something to measure yourself against. And what typically happens, especially in fledgling agencies like. Taipei as you. Get work in or request for work. It’s really. Tempting to say yes to. The wrong things and just slightly bloat your service. Line out a little bit. But what that then does is it changes the seats that you require in order to deliver the service, and then that really sends ripples through the the team because it’s not just the seats are required, it’s them. The SOP’s. It’s in the training, it’s in the J’s and the job progressions for those people. It’s a whole big old mess. If you don’t do this right, so the process we went through with our operations director, Vicky, I think you know her. We for people who don’t know why that’s funny. It’s Chris’s wife. The we went.
Speaker
She’s very.
𝗔𝗻𝗻𝗮 𝗠𝗮𝗿𝘀𝗱𝗲𝗻
Good at what she did.
𝗥𝗼𝘀𝘀 𝗧𝗮𝘃𝗲𝗻𝗱𝗮𝗹𝗲
Yeah, she’s amazing. She’s amazing. Best in class. And UM, we sat through big Whiteboarding session and just wrote down all of the various things that we do and how we delivered them. And also we took feedback from the the team as to like what was wrong and where to fix it. A lot of times leadership feel like we need to go and solve things in some sort of black box and come out. Right, so there. That’s categorically not how it should go, especially if you’re a small team. Get other people to tell you how to run it. Because also, if you’re hiring people that need absolute direction all the time, I would suggest you’re not gonna go very. Far. So listen to your people and. They will actually tell. You what’s best and you from that can put the commercial layer on it and the operations layer on it and make it. Into a functional business.
𝗖𝗵𝗿𝗶𝘀 𝗦𝗶𝗺𝗺𝗮𝗻𝗰𝗲
And I think that’s that, that is, that’s. Absolutely key and I think one of the things as well. That and. What could go wrong there is. You get too much feedback because obviously. Not everyone knows how. The business works, but at the end of. The day they. They’re they’re in. Their currency, because that’s the currency they’re in. And but giving I was talking to. Someone on LinkedIn the other day. Giving just about the right amount of information. About who you are, where? You are where you’re going. It’s great. When. It’s for everyone in the business because. They can then give you feedback around. The seats that you’re planning. For the big marketing thing you’re gonna do next. But if you don’t give them any information and then live and die by. Their feedback? Bad. If you give them too much information and then expect some comprehensive but concise or actionable feedback, probably not gonna happen either.
𝗥𝗼𝘀𝘀 𝗧𝗮𝘃𝗲𝗻𝗱𝗮𝗹𝗲
Yeah. One of the four Stoic virtues is temperance. So you’re you need to sort of strike and actually. One of our. Uh company values it’s on the wall is balanced so. Too much of either end is wrong, so getting the middle. Point is important.
𝗖𝗵𝗿𝗶𝘀 𝗦𝗶𝗺𝗺𝗮𝗻𝗰𝗲
Yeah, I think I think I think you’re right and it’s it can, it can can be. Tough, but I think once you know. Who you are, the purpose and the. The the values the business live. On and the. Culture that you can create and then you know, OK, we need these seats. But also we don’t need this. Until we get to that because.
Speaker
You’ve got a.
𝗖𝗵𝗿𝗶𝘀 𝗦𝗶𝗺𝗺𝗮𝗻𝗰𝗲
Strategy. Then you can be a bit creative when you’re when you’re hiring and I think it’s really easy for people to prepare for. Basic interview show up. I’ll tell you about yourself. Something that’s not.
Speaker
On the TV.
𝗖𝗵𝗿𝗶𝘀 𝗦𝗶𝗺𝗺𝗮𝗻𝗰𝗲
Or whatever and I think. I think in digital agencies land. As as much as.
Speaker
Pretty much in.
𝗖𝗵𝗿𝗶𝘀 𝗦𝗶𝗺𝗺𝗮𝗻𝗰𝗲
It’s probably the best place where potential employers. Can be really creative. And do something a bit different. And it’s not a Google. Style. Throw them a black box and expect them to to give you some kind of. Cool answer that’s got no real answer. To it, there’s a there are, there’s. A really good middle ground, I think you you. Know quite a bit about this, anyone?
𝗔𝗻𝗻𝗮 𝗠𝗮𝗿𝘀𝗱𝗲𝗻
Yeah, this wasn’t for our agency. Again, we were the. The agency that. Literally just got the subject matter experts. Who were the freelancers? So we were very, very kind of not top heavy. We were very flat, I guess as a as a structure and it was a community of people that were delivering. And so getting those freelancers. Involved and feeling part. Of what we were doing was central. So we didn’t have that kind of. Structure we were very micro. We were we are very micro business. But I was helping a client. Of advising the the financial services sector. And we did a day. We we that’s terrible we I mean me not the royal we just me. But it’s really hard when you married to business partner to not say we when. You mean I I was part of a A. A A recruitment day and they did three really good things. I think the first one was picking up a point that you made, Chris, there, about being creative. Questions that they asked in the regular. Interview. Yeah. Then they also. They got a point that you touched on. Most other people involved who already worked for the organisation involved in meeting, chatting to understanding what the person was like when they weren’t being quizzed, understanding what the person was interested in, motivated by what were their motivational hooks for things, and then the. Off the wall kind of created challenges and and this again was financial services. It wasn’t a a cool digital marketing agency, but they came up with a question about. You know your your. Creating a new board game. Literally, you’ve got half an hour to brainstorm ideas, come up with what it looks like to win, what you have to. Do what’s gonna. Be called. Well, has nothing to do with the the the product. That ultimately they’re gonna. Sell. But part of that is understanding how someone reacts to the unknown. Seeing how creative someone is and you don’t have to be in a creative role to be creative in your work and so part of that day was just brilliant because you could see people really kind of lean into. I don’t know. How to answer? This, but I’m going to have a start, but I’m gonna take from this experience and I’m gonna take from this. I’m gonna take. From what I know about the market and what we play well and what’s gonna take from what I. Understand about behavioural insights and. How people work together. And if you’re a small. Agency that really, really is trying to influence people. To to do. Things that would be quite. Useful to to see how people react to the the unknown and throwing people into kind of a bit of a scary yet exciting creative question. That worked really.
Speaker
Really brilliant thing. Which?
𝗖𝗵𝗿𝗶𝘀 𝗦𝗶𝗺𝗺𝗮𝗻𝗰𝗲
Pulls all three in my final points together. Nice. And lengthy really. By final points I mean the final. Point at least. And challenging people outside of the situation. OK, you’ve come for a digital PR interview. Now make a a board game and don’t know. How that would? Land for the 17 interviews this week, Ross. But when? When would you do that? What kind of?
Speaker 3
Roles would you expect?
𝗖𝗵𝗿𝗶𝘀 𝗦𝗶𝗺𝗺𝗮𝗻𝗰𝗲
App from you can’t do. It for every role, for example.
𝗥𝗼𝘀𝘀 𝗧𝗮𝘃𝗲𝗻𝗱𝗮𝗹𝗲
I think you can reduce the anger a little.
𝗔𝗻𝗻𝗮 𝗠𝗮𝗿𝘀𝗱𝗲𝗻
Is that to me?
𝗥𝗼𝘀𝘀 𝗧𝗮𝘃𝗲𝗻𝗱𝗮𝗹𝗲
I I think you can reduce the grandeur a little bit with instead of doing like big challenging creative tasks and like you hear all the esoteric things that Google engineers are, so things like you know if you’re a flea and you’re in a blender, how do you get out? The answer is jump out because the and the the whole point is they would know how mass. Then in velocity changes when you’re like really small and things like that, that’s all very well and good, but I find really basic things that are not interview questions massively throw people and they don’t expect them at all. And it tells you a lot about. Who they are to live like today. I’ve just been asking how was your weekend? And they’re like.
Speaker
What your?
𝗥𝗼𝘀𝘀 𝗧𝗮𝘃𝗲𝗻𝗱𝗮𝗹𝗲
Weekend. What did you? Get up to how was it and and just the panic. Is unbelievable. Like ohh. Well, it was raining, so I stayed in. I’m like, oh, yeah, what would you prefer? You. What? You would have preferred to do instead. And then you’re just seeing COGS go and they’re like, well, I don’t know what I should say for this. There’s no pre prepared answer. To make me look good. But and the answer to all of that is I don’t want to say, Oh yeah, I went to the gym, then to church, and I’ve done some volunteering at a soup kitchen. And then I saved a puppy from a river. We just want to really know who you are. And yeah, you know what? What kind of wavelength you’re on?
𝗖𝗵𝗿𝗶𝘀 𝗦𝗶𝗺𝗺𝗮𝗻𝗰𝗲
It’s it’s. It’s not hard to answer those questions unless you’re in typical interview mode as the interviewee and I. I think that’s why we’ve asked them. Obviously, in order to kind of not throw people off and make them feel uncomfortable. But to. See what the real human being. Is like versus what? The script in front of them, that’s like.
𝗔𝗻𝗻𝗮 𝗠𝗮𝗿𝘀𝗱𝗲𝗻
Because the the real human being will show up and they’ll show up. And you wanna make sure? Yeah. And you wanna make sure that that. That when they do show up that they are in the rocal world that we live in, there is nothing as constant as changed. We’ve all heard that. We know that we’ve experienced it. Definitely these. Path 323 years. But knowing how people respond when they don’t know can tell you lots about how they’re going to be with the team, with you and with the clients. And I think that is really essential. And in a world of. Digital comms, we are cureless quite a lot. Of the time. So what I mean by that is, if we’re communicating just via text. Not necessarily via video, but also sometimes via video. We’re not picking up on accusing interpersonal skills and what we’re seeing is generationally that might have a bit of an impact in how people would respond to your question. What do you do at the weekend? Ohh, what do I need to say? But again, it’s not about what you need to say. It’s about being able to be honest and show yourself. And if we’re talking about culture and the importance of belonging, we want those people to show up as themselves because you are always gonna be better when you are happier and committed. And in your team with your tribe of folk, you’re always going to be. Because you’re not double thinking that takes more effort.
𝗖𝗵𝗿𝗶𝘀 𝗦𝗶𝗺𝗺𝗮𝗻𝗰𝗲
Yeah, and and and and. And I think that there’s a question that’s just popped up. I’ll put on the screen just now, but. Around the real person, kind of. How accurate are those personality tests? Those how accurate are those in the genetics, those those kinds of tests versus what the real person ends? Up looking like. I know there’s lots of times.
𝗔𝗻𝗻𝗮 𝗠𝗮𝗿𝘀𝗱𝗲𝗻
Behind it, I absolutely am not an expert in every single personality test, but emergenetics.
Speaker
𝗔𝗻𝗻𝗮 𝗠𝗮𝗿𝘀𝗱𝗲𝗻
It was really interesting. Again, you wouldn’t use it as a recruitment tool, but there the difference about emergenetics is that it measures the the two separate. Attributes of behaviours. How we default think our go two ways of thinking are and. What our go two ways of behaving are so not. None of the other. Personality psychometric tools will measure behaviour separately to thinking we converge, thinking and behaviour and as a team member. It’s really good to know. Ohh you can ask Anna or anything. You can interrupt her halfway through a flow. You can interrupt a. Meeting she is a.
Speaker 3
And you can talk about quick reflow.
𝗥𝗼𝘀𝘀 𝗧𝗮𝘃𝗲𝗻𝗱𝗮𝗹𝗲
If you get one.
𝗔𝗻𝗻𝗮 𝗠𝗮𝗿𝘀𝗱𝗲𝗻
It I was gonna say it’s like you’ve prepped that, but but knowing your colleagues flexibility scale, knowing when a decision is made, how fixed they are on that being the decision made can help you work with someone when you’ve made decision. If they’re very fixed. If they’re very, very flexible in terms of. Changes, but how coming back to the question, how accurate are they? The Emergenetics tool itself re norms, so I’ve got a robot somewhere. It re norms. The stats every year. And there’s a scientific technical report that comes with the profile, so that shows you exactly how the stats are created, how the data is created. It’s a data scientist that developed it alongside a behavioural scientist, so I think the actual data coming back to what we were talking about knowing exactly what you’re counting. You need if you don’t have that. Clear structure. Everything else. Is is not comparable, so if. You don’t have comparable data. You don’t. Know whether it’s. Right or not, I. Don’t know about the other the other. Tools, but I’m happy to share that link afterwards.
Speaker
Yeah, yeah, the technical.
𝗥𝗼𝘀𝘀 𝗧𝗮𝘃𝗲𝗻𝗱𝗮𝗹𝗲
Yeah, I feel thankful. You have to think of the interpretation of that day as well. So there’s two major problems with any sort of testing that requires any sort of subject. Active reasoning so the the nice thing about the test is it they attempt to remove subjective reasoning and give you like your answers for you. So it removes your subjective thought on the answers, but there’s always gonna be an interpretation problem and a bias from the person that’s consuming it. So I think wide and broad spectrum testing is actually quite. Useful but it not on its own in isolation like it really has to be paid. Up with lots of different things, so you could because if the same themes happen over and over again in in this testing, then the the likelihoods that it’s correct is higher, but it’s very hard to boil down a human to 50 questions.
𝗔𝗻𝗻𝗮 𝗠𝗮𝗿𝘀𝗱𝗲𝗻
Yeah, you’re absolutely right, Russell. One of the and again Mrs, this is because I’m an accredited professional for that. So I I know that rather than the other tools, but. Out of the 100 questions, they have thematic questions. So that the the. Trait is being you’re being asked a question about this trait 10 times rather than just one question. It depends on how you feel to. To answer that, it is thematic and these personality and psychometric tools give us language. To be able to understand. Ourselves and others it might. Not be that it is a. 100% you are that person. It’s not a box, it’s not a label. We know too. Much about neuroscience to think that we are stuck in who we are. We have the ability to learn and so the self-awareness question that. Beginning is a thread, a golden thread. I think through these tests.
Speaker
And and like I said.
𝗖𝗵𝗿𝗶𝘀 𝗦𝗶𝗺𝗺𝗮𝗻𝗰𝗲
I feel like I’m going back to the beginning. Every. Time, but knowing yourself is it’s really important. But also you said earlier, Ross, take the emotion out of it and also on top of that, don’t just be the only one. In the room because. You might get flattered. You might have one of your, you know, triggers emotional triggers. Laws, which means that that person. Might or might not get hired. And you mentioned it earlier and about getting people involved, other people. Involved like the employees and stuff.
Speaker
Yeah, how?
𝗖𝗵𝗿𝗶𝘀 𝗦𝗶𝗺𝗺𝗮𝗻𝗰𝗲
How and when would you do that? Would that be? Part of a.
Speaker 3
Structured process that you.
𝗖𝗵𝗿𝗶𝘀 𝗦𝗶𝗺𝗺𝗮𝗻𝗰𝗲
Would hire people, or would you go? I feel. Like I need someone else involved. At this point.
𝗥𝗼𝘀𝘀 𝗧𝗮𝘃𝗲𝗻𝗱𝗮𝗹𝗲
What? How what you guys?
𝗔𝗻𝗻𝗮 𝗠𝗮𝗿𝘀𝗱𝗲𝗻
I I think you can be creative, I think you. Can have a mixture of. Quite structured involvement of your staff. So if if someone hasn’t interviewed before, develop them in terms of their interviewing experience. Get them to see how the questions are structured. Why do you put comments and scores down? What’s the importance of reading the question the same way for each person? What’s the importance of making sure, even if you really like the person, you’ve got a great wicked smile and you really think, oh, they’re lovely, don’t let that again. The emotion overwhelmed the answer that they told you because the answer that they told you you need to mark that on a schema because the structure of that question in that interview will allow you to compare them to other people. And that’s really important if you’re looking for the skills. That the organisation needs. So if you have someone that’s never interviewed someone before, invite them to do that, you know and and create your panel of a mixture of subject matter experts and existing staff. That again pulls that thread of the belonging and feeling like you’re invested in creating the the new persons or creating the role and seeing that new person in the team. You can do it casually again over lunch breaks and in break outs where you sit and you have coffee and you chat and you do the how you what you do. Weekend stuff, but that’d be a bit more subjective, but I think both. I don’t know if you’ve got experience of doing that whilst with your team.
𝗥𝗼𝘀𝘀 𝗧𝗮𝘃𝗲𝗻𝗱𝗮𝗹𝗲
Yeah. So we wouldn’t do both typically. So I think one of the interesting things practically when you’re doing recruitment drives is just the amount of time that you do or do not have. And usually there’s a recruiter involved, so there’s some level of pressure to move things along depending on the type of hire. If it’s a senior, hire one of my little tricks or tactics is to invite a junior. To one of the. Interview stages and get them to announce that they’re a junior on the on the call. So it’d be like, hi, I am Billy, and I’ve been in search for six months to someone who’s going for like a eight-year experience position because that tells you as much about them and how they act speaking to someone who would technically be a subordinate. To someone who’s the owner of the company and actually I would say me being on those recruitment calls is quite problematic. So having anyone with like an extreme stake and an extreme stay in someone’s future in any sort of like work thing is, is is not an ideal scenario. So if you we do it in three stages, and if it’s more senior, we also put gingers in there, but typically it would be a head of department and myself. That would run them. Just purely for a practical reason.
𝗖𝗵𝗿𝗶𝘀 𝗦𝗶𝗺𝗺𝗮𝗻𝗰𝗲
And yeah, and and and how in the curveball? There, with bringing in the junior. How how’s? That what? What’s the, you know? The the the best sort of reaction. That you’ve had. From that, from the the interview really as some. Like, well, this is cool.
Speaker
Well, you, you.
𝗥𝗼𝘀𝘀 𝗧𝗮𝘃𝗲𝗻𝗱𝗮𝗹𝗲
I would I would extend this sort of thing so when my little sister before she met her partner, was dating and they were going out on dates, you would always say pay attention to how they treat people that have got nothing to give them. So if you’re at a restaurant, how are they? Treating waiters and people helping and cleaning attendants and things like that. That, and it’s really subtle, but it tells you quite a lot about the type of person they they are in, a kind of broader way. It’s hard to read too much into that sort of stuff, but it every little bit to like create more colourful pictures of someone. I find this quite helpful.
𝗔𝗻𝗻𝗮 𝗠𝗮𝗿𝘀𝗱𝗲𝗻
I think that’s a great example of us, especially because you said one of your values is growing. Together it it it. If someone who has got more years experience treats someone else with six months experience in a way that that is derogatory, that. It it it? Isn’t that they’re dismissed in what they say that. Tells you all you need. To know about someone, I think. And and again, I know we’ve said about skills, but you know the the people show themselves, they might say words that they show themselves in actions. And I think part of the the interview process should allow you to see to, to be in front of those. Action sometime.
𝗖𝗵𝗿𝗶𝘀 𝗦𝗶𝗺𝗺𝗮𝗻𝗰𝗲
Totally agree. I’ve got. A question here from Simon I. Think that’s for you, Anna? Probably it’s probably both of you. In fact, do you always need to have a formal interview? We’ve been recommended a friend of. A friend, what would you? What would you say? I’ll I’ll throw it both. Of you. So, Anna. What? What?
𝗔𝗻𝗻𝗮 𝗠𝗮𝗿𝘀𝗱𝗲𝗻
I was gonna say Simon’s the expert. Have you got how many? 17 lined up for this week? But I would say you. Don’t always need a formal interview, however. That to the point we were making about having this, the structured questions in the interview so that you can compare and contrast. How can you? I used to have to make calls quite a lot to say you’ve not been successful and I know Ross you’ll be having. To make these great, make these. Calls this week. What do you say to someone that hasn’t been successful? You tell them the facts and the truth. So you you didn’t score very well on this question about this. That might be a? Development area for you? We really like. This because you scored well on this, so being able to have that information in a formal way gives you data to be able to make the right decision internally, but also when you’re giving feedback, it allows you to give.
Speaker
And then.
𝗔𝗻𝗻𝗮 𝗠𝗮𝗿𝘀𝗱𝗲𝗻
Constructive feedback, constructive feedback to the person if you’re recommended by a friend or a friend, do you know them? How do they know them? Is it for? The right same. Role is it for a different role? What? Are the skills that they’re bringing? Have you seen a CV again the liking and? The skills make sure. We don’t conflate those two things. Have we like them, so they must be they must be good and we rate our. Friend, I I think I. Think maybe not a formal interview always, but. Definitely you want to be able. To see the CV. And and be able to see that their skills. Match that they can see that. Yeah, have.
𝗥𝗼𝘀𝘀 𝗧𝗮𝘃𝗲𝗻𝗱𝗮𝗹𝗲
This is interesting, and that’s the first thing that I’ve only slightly disagreed on. So like that, that, that last, that well, just that last bit there, but like yeah, maybe not like fully formal interview and and things like that. I think actually it it’s. Needed even more so if it’s some sort. If it’s a non professional relationship you have with someone you’re bringing them into professional, it depends. To be fair, it depends on your company. It’s a small business. You just need some help. Some things probably not that important.
𝗔𝗻𝗻𝗮 𝗠𝗮𝗿𝘀𝗱𝗲𝗻
It’s as if there is a freelancer. I’m sure, but again, if you’re pulling someone into. Your actual core team. You want to have the same the this that’s. In the data, don’t you?
𝗥𝗼𝘀𝘀 𝗧𝗮𝘃𝗲𝗻𝗱𝗮𝗹𝗲
And they need and they also need to be OK with going through a formal process because it shows respect for the role and it shows respect for what you’re trying to build. And it gets them. On the same page as you. So we’ve had a lot of things where. People will recommend people that have like because they’ve seen them win awards or they’ve seen them on some webinar or something like that. And it’ll it’ll go through and the person who’s been interviewed is forcing informally. Obviously or or we didn’t have time to go through the task, but I can. Talk you through it now. No. Like so like, I actually prefer like a very formal framework, and I prefer things like tests and tasks that it takes the emotion out. And also, we’re not talking about with a person and my relationship. We’re talking about the. Thing they did. So I think the formality helps me a lot.
Speaker
That’s key, isn’t it?
𝗖𝗵𝗿𝗶𝘀 𝗦𝗶𝗺𝗺𝗮𝗻𝗰𝗲
The ability to take that. Emotion out of it is. Hugely hugely important and it, but then you.
Speaker
Know for the.
𝗖𝗵𝗿𝗶𝘀 𝗦𝗶𝗺𝗺𝗮𝗻𝗰𝗲
The speed of the process. Sometimes that doesn’t happen.
𝗔𝗻𝗻𝗮 𝗠𝗮𝗿𝘀𝗱𝗲𝗻
And again that’s that’s. A really valid point in terms of what is the role, how long is the role? What? What is that role in the structure of the organisation and the the data and the comparisons and being able to give what what is caring? Considered feedback. You can only really do that if you’ve got the the the data so. Yeah. Now I I I, I. I think we have to be. Mindful of the people that we. Like versus the people. That we think. Can demonstrate the skills that we need for backseat.
𝗖𝗵𝗿𝗶𝘀 𝗦𝗶𝗺𝗺𝗮𝗻𝗰𝗲
So final final point from either of you. What?
Speaker 3
Is the 1st.
𝗖𝗵𝗿𝗶𝘀 𝗦𝗶𝗺𝗺𝗮𝗻𝗰𝗲
Like the first kind of thing, that would be a warning sign that they’re not the right bum on the right seats. Taking into account that it’s that you’ve got. The same process. Every time and. And you’ve got like a. It’s the every it’s the same role, 100. 100 roles. What’s the one thing? That would be like the earliest doors red flag.
𝗥𝗼𝘀𝘀 𝗧𝗮𝘃𝗲𝗻𝗱𝗮𝗹𝗲
Really straightforward. So the first one to one, we go one to one every month in a quarterly review with them every quarter, funnily enough and.
Speaker
How that happened?
𝗥𝗼𝘀𝘀 𝗧𝗮𝘃𝗲𝗻𝗱𝗮𝗹𝗲
Yeah. The one to ones are 10 questions, two of which are two of each of the the values and one of them is through the growing together like who have you helped and who’s helped. To if it’s coming out. So we also have a scorecard for everything. So every level of the business, everyone has one number that they need to push for. So that’s not happening. That’s a really obvious flag that they might be in the wrong job. And then quarterly you just get more data and it’s 360 feedback. We use a system called bamboo. To reach your AIS system and allows you strongly do MPs in the team, but also well-being and and Anonymous 360. So when it comes to their quarterly review, you’ve got the entire agency that work with them. Giving some level of feedback. So you’ve got they are subjective feelings on things. Their line managers, subjective feelings on things and then more objective overall feedback based on things they’ve interacted with. So you just see. It through numbers and testing and reporting and and that’s it. I mean we we had one kind of funnier story. Someone didn’t show up for work on the Monday and it’s remote, so it’s hard not. To show up. Put a camera on and he phoned me at 1:00. O’clock in the afternoon and he said I’m really sorry. I was up till 6:00. O’clock. In the morning, I’m like oh. What are you doing? Are you ill? Like what’s happening? He’s like, no, he’s launching my new business and like. But you work here and he’s like, oh, yeah. But it’s four days, so evenings and weekends, I’m like, OK, so that that was a quite easy flag. But that’s so rare and bizarre. Just scorecarding one to ones quarter reviews. What? But you wanna?
𝗔𝗻𝗻𝗮 𝗠𝗮𝗿𝘀𝗱𝗲𝗻
I think well, I can’t beat that in terms of an answer. I think that’s so awesome. In terms of the structure and the robust data and exactly what we were saying before about, you know, having the the systematic collection of data points, some subjective. Some objective so that you can see. So you can really get that as you say the the 360, I think the boring structural collection of data will allow you to see things and I know we’re talking about humans, but even. Still, I think it’s. Really important that that we follow a process because business is all of our process.
𝗖𝗵𝗿𝗶𝘀 𝗦𝗶𝗺𝗺𝗮𝗻𝗰𝗲
Especially in this industry, it it people say it doesn’t and it isn’t. It’s all about people, but it is about people. But people doing process. Leads me to. Thank everyone. Thank. You guys in particular and for you? Know for for. Being here and helping out and giving your giving your Nuggets of information and tips. I think I think we’ve certainly covered. An awful lot, a lot more than we were. Supposed to and over timing but. You know what, I think we all. Like a a good old chat. And any final questions from anyone, please send them to me. In an e-mail or. Or go on to the community and ask Anna and Ross her in the community as well. So just tag them and you’ll see and and join us for the next webinar. The beginning of December with Judith Jermaine, one of the OG Centre coaches, and we’re gonna be talking about critical thinking. And how it’s a superpower for agency. Leaders and Ross, you hear me? Talk about this all the time. It it it, it is powerful and and and and I think if you’re not if as an agency owner not employing employing that those skills yourself, you can’t expect the people you’re employing to employ them either.
𝗥𝗼𝘀𝘀 𝗧𝗮𝘃𝗲𝗻𝗱𝗮𝗹𝗲
Yeah, that was a we actually got Chris in to do a session on that with our entire team. And what actually what actually happened as a result of that the next week, all the team became very as they were getting used to it and like flexing that muscle, they all became very obstinate and that everything. Was a question. But that that allowed. Us to put in more facilities for.
Speaker
But still pay for the.
𝗥𝗼𝘀𝘀 𝗧𝗮𝘃𝗲𝗻𝗱𝗮𝗹𝗲
No, but I mean it then it it helps short term, right? So with all that new knowledge and you’re starting to flex your muscle and get used to like when it’s appropriate to use it and and like how to use it. We then, as a leadership team like this, is great cause. We can put in processes to to support, and I’m sure the clients quite liked it as well.
𝗖𝗵𝗿𝗶𝘀 𝗦𝗶𝗺𝗺𝗮𝗻𝗰𝗲
They they, they do and I and and it work. It’s it helps prevent future problems. But anyway, that’s for another webinar which everyone should sign up to.
Speaker 3
Thank you very much for us. Thank.
𝗖𝗵𝗿𝗶𝘀 𝗦𝗶𝗺𝗺𝗮𝗻𝗰𝗲
You very much, Anna and everyone watching the replay in 10 years time, potentially in YouTube and hopefully the world still. Spinning thanks very much everyone.
𝗔𝗻𝗻𝗮 𝗠𝗮𝗿𝘀𝗱𝗲𝗻
Cheers. Thanks so much.
𝗥𝗼𝘀𝘀 𝗧𝗮𝘃𝗲𝗻𝗱𝗮𝗹𝗲
Hey guys. Fine.