V.O. Guy
Hello and thanks for coming along to …And we have an office dog, the digital agency podcast where we talk to agency owner, directors and learn more about what makes them tick from the things that make them similar to the things they’d rather have known sooner where they’ve had success. And where they’ve learned some hard lessons. All will be revealed. With your host, Chris Simmance, the agency coach, and he’ll be talking to a different awesome agency person in each episode, asking them four questions and seeing where the conversation takes us over the next 25 minutes. OK, so let us begin over to you, Chris.
Chris Simmance (Host)
Thanks voice over guy and on the podcast today we’ve got Steve again for another year. Hello, Steve.
Steve Hyde (Guest)
Hello mate, how are?
Chris Simmance (Host)
You not too bad. Not too bad. I was. I was just there. We were just updating ourselves on our snowboarding escapades. And. And now I want to go back again. Yeah, well, it it snowed again.
Steve Hyde (Guest)
So it it was looking a little bit patchy but it it’s I think the helps look good if if we get a chance but. Yeah, maybe next year. Yeah, I’m going to keep.
Chris Simmance (Host)
The keep the diary. Open, should we say just in case? So thanks very much. This is the second year you’ve been in on the podcast. So for anyone who’s been a bit naughty and hasn’t listened to your original podcast, do you wanna give us a bit of an intro to who’s Steve and who push are?
Steve Hyde (Guest)
Sure, I’m sure they haven’t been that naughty. But I’m Steve Hyde. I founded Push with Ricky Solanki back in 2000 and. Seven and we we are a digital marketing agency like many others that you’ll be speaking to. Our specialism originally was in was in paid advertising, which we kind of we really focused hard on in 2012 and we had a big growth period from. 2012 you know all the way up to 2020 and and we’ll talk about what’s happening. And where we’re at.
Chris Simmance (Host)
And and and you’ve been. You, you. You found it. You when the agency started, you founded it with Ricky at the same time as that you both came in. At the same time. That’s right. Yeah. Yeah. So you had a a nice long stint with the Co founder and you learned, learned each others ways around things so. Last, when when we last spoke you, you, I. Think if I remember rightly, you’ve only recently just won an award and we talked about that. But what’s happened in the? Last year, that since we’ve spoken and and in the agency in particular and how how have you guys adapted to the changes?
Steve Hyde (Guest)
So we’ve we’ve had a really good year. From the point. Of view of rebuilding and restructuring for the future. So that and what does that mean in in, in, in? In real terms, so our core service, which was always in in paid advertising, I guess particularly in. In Google and we’ve. We we’ve we’ve looked to try and divest out. Of that and. On other services, but you know it’s partly because out of necessity, but a big part of. It has been client. Led now clients have been we, you know, we have been asking for services like SEO. Like what? Our ability to build creative assets. And though we’ve we’ve had to respond to to that. So we’ve we’ve introduced top guy in the SEO team and so so. Build out that revenue stream. And we’ve introduced a head of creative as well and there’s more more to follow. So you know we’ve gone from a very basic level being a PPC first business to being a much more all rounded agent.
Chris Simmance (Host)
And do you? Do you think that so? Has that been led by current clients kind of asking for it or partly because future clients might might want that as a as a as a decision making piece?
Steve Hyde (Guest)
I think a bit of. Both, Chris, we’ve. Had examples where we’ve lost clients that maybe have been with us for say 3-4 years and we were just start and particularly in the e-commerce sector, we were just starting to to see that the results that. We’ve been getting weren’t get. Were the level we wanted them to be, they. Were they were. Everything we could on on paid, particularly on Google and. I think in some cases we were talking to them about, for example, building better creative assets to help us on social or having the conversations around SEO. But but that that. That we just hadn’t got to that. Point. So it has. Been led by client or prospects? Interest is being LED out by our team. And it’s a decision we talked to give some perspective. It’s a decision we took. In in in the spring of last year. But let’s take nine months to kind of like to to get the right people in place to lead that those changes. And then and now we’re in place and now we’re very much in the position where we’re driving that agenda with clients and and prospects and and is it.
Chris Simmance (Host)
For a good amount of time running, almost EPC focused, has it been. Is there anything that you kind of like realised that’s easier or more difficult than you’d expected? Because of because of adding these these additional services.
Steve Hyde (Guest)
I think I would say two things. One is there’s there’s there’s more margin per say in, in, in SEO than there is in, in pure PC that’s number one. Number two, I see you smiling there. Yeah, #2. The kind of creative, the creative element of what we’re doing. So we’re very involved with TikTok as an example. So it’s just a lot of fun as well. Yeah, they’re having fun with stuff. And the nature of the kinds of people that we employ or need to employ changing. You have. And in in a more fun conservative direction as well, I must say.
Chris Simmance (Host)
I’ve been watching the Tik toks. I can’t remember the name of the person that that you’ve that you’ve got doing most of those.
Steve Hyde (Guest)
I know.
Chris Simmance (Host)
Shannon, that they’re most of them, obviously they’re they’re jumping on other trends and doing all that sort of stuff, but there’s there’s a there’s a really cool kind of creative aspects to it. And I think if you’re looking to that kind of age range for your next round of hires in the future and things.
Steve Hyde (Guest)
It’s, it’s that that’s the platform where you’re going to find people and. And so yeah. And then, you know we we we we found out recently that the the highest converting age group on Tip Top is is my age it’s it’s over 50s no you know it’s it’s you know. That phrase we’ve said before TikTok question Mark. Remember when you thought WhatsApp was just for kids? Well, it, you know, it’s cohorting just like everything else has done it. Yeah. Yeah.
Chris Simmance (Host)
It’s I made. I made the the happy mistake of liking quite a lot of your content on TikTok and now every time I turn TikTok on I see seeing your guys.
Steve Hyde (Guest)
Ways, don’t worry.
Chris Simmance (Host)
Hell yeah, you know. But yeah, I I think those are the sorts of things which which are really key, like new emerging elements in the industry. What are the what are the? Stuff. Have you you seen in the last well, 12 months since we last last spoke that have. That’s really kind of. Changed what’s what’s what? What’s emerged that you guys have thought? Are we going to? What’s the next thing that you’ve got? A question mark on maybe.
Steve Hyde (Guest)
Well, we, we, we are definitely moving into a more consultative space. So we’re I think we’re obviously what we’ve been doing in the past is we are we’ve been execution first. You you want, you want, you want to get better results from your marketing campaign. We will do it for you and we’ve done some consulting which has been quite light consulting where with work with in House Tees. We’re move. I think we’re moving into a relationship where with clients. Will be a. Much longer term relationship where we’re painting out a picture perhaps of you know how they can grow over say A2 year framework, but we’ll so we’ll, we’ll we’ll see a different approach, different relationship. And like I say, a much a much more of a consultative approach. So the sorts of conversations we’ll be having. Will be. Yeah, I I think frankly at a higher level and people that will be representing push and talking to clients will be you know probably come with a with a degree of gravitas and experience so. Arguably moving away from to to some extent where we were say 10 years ago it it was quite OK to go higher, graduate train them the heck on Google ads and then and then letting them work. Yeah, this is that’s not the case anymore and.
Chris Simmance (Host)
Now I think. That part of that part of that’s kind of LED, I guess by every but most businesses becoming more digitally mature and and one thing I’ve noticed and I don’t know if you’ve seen this with clients is? That some of their internal teams are more digitally aware now and that’s. Usually in some cases, because they’ve got, they’ve earned their stripes in the in an agency in the past, and now they’re in house and in an internal team managing a relationship with an agency. And most of the. Most of those cases where I’ve seen it’s either they’ve gone heavy on the on the delivery or heavy on the consultancy. And the the larger the client and the the more mature the the client or the business. And from a from a technological maturity point of view, the more likelihood is that they. Want you for your brains? And and and I think that that’s only going to keep keep going the same way. I I can’t see especially with with. The leveraging of of AI as a tool in the in the next. I can’t. I can’t see. I can’t see.
Steve Hyde (Guest)
They’re not dead, yeah.
Chris Simmance (Host)
Yeah, exactly. Well, there’ll be a robot at my funeral, I’m sure. And but but I think in the next, in the next few years, I can’t see it going in reverse. I can’t see clients asking to heavily go into the into the doing. Aspect because quite a lot of that stuff really isn’t. It’s advanced admin these days. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, very much so.
Steve Hyde (Guest)
And so, you know, without we’ve, we’ve. Gone, what, 10 minutes without mentioning? That ChatGPT, which is how? Everyone out there is suddenly a ChatGPT. But yeah, you ask what you know what the future is looking like. Well, the. The the the. The future is already here in AI, yeah. I’ve just. I’m going to put put something up on LinkedIn today which is, which is an old post or an old presentation. We did back. At Google in 2017. Where there’s there’s some AI being used very similar to the sort of results that you’re now seeing from. From from, yeah.
Chris Simmance (Host)
Not to go too far into. That rabbit hole, but. Any kind of language based AI model. It can only as clever as they can be and. As clever as as GPT. Four is and things like that. They’re still a language based model, so if you look back and I wasn’t, I I I was trying to remember the name of it and you might remember it was it was back in. 2003, 2004 they were like online chat bots that you could have like fake conversations with. And I can’t remember any of the names of them, but they were you would. You would just as a. As a kid. I was just chatting randomly away to these things and the answers were short because you know the computing power required was quite a lot. But it’s still language based, so it’s not that much more complex there in there are lots of complexities, but it’s it’s it’s an evolution of that kind of thing. As long as you’re sticking with language based models and things like that, then it can only really be used as a as a as a tool and stick that into something which can make decisions. Visions and goodbye. Everybody else, I think.
Steve Hyde (Guest)
So, so, so, so, so those. Yeah. Listening to this, have a look for Google Sound Hound and look at the video on YouTube from about 2016 seventeen Soundhound demo and you’ll see something which was incredibly advanced for its time. But yeah, I’m. Encouraging and everyone at push to use as much. This is possible so that they’re they’re they’re they’re thinking about the applications that that, that, that, that, that open air has and importantly, you know how you know what value they add to it because that’s the IT, it’s. Not a question. Necessarily of people, quote unquote, losing their jobs, it’s. Yeah, that is no surprise that the the the winners, if they’re if that’s the right description gonna be people that can work with the AI. Yeah, have their advantages that understand how it works and then, you know, you manipulate it, use it and and so on. And we’re seeing that you’re. Seeing that and. There’s some great examples and great. It’s coming through.
Chris Simmance (Host)
Yeah, it’s a. It’s a tool to act as a collaboration companion type thing and and and and. And you know, your SEO guys will probably be just as aware of the monotony as some of the PC guys in the olden days when you used to kind of very manually build PPC campaigns. How hard and soul destroying it is to write 10,000 versions of something which are all very slightly different variations of the same? Thing and you can now create that in minutes and all of the value of. That hours and hours and hours and hours. And hours is. Is never, was never really full shown in the in the results that you could you give to a client. The actual secret was the composition of those things, and if you can get some. A robot to do. 80% of the heavy lifting on a very clever 20% of thinking. Then you’re you know, you’re leveraging quite quite a lot. Absolutely. So in in the last year, obviously adding to the team in terms of different service lines and developing those, those those revenue streams and things like that, what, what, what what’s happened to you Steve, in the last year and so professionally, personally have you evolved in in the in the Agency? Well, I’ve certainly had to get.
Steve Hyde (Guest)
Back to some of the. The kind of. Core skills that I have, which is about storytelling and selling and so on. That I sometimes think. That’s all I can do is actually just look at something differently and try and paint paint a picture, tell a story in a way that businesses, CEO’s, leaders. Other yeah. And that that. That’s. That’s the bit that I I do well, so I’ve I’ve been more involved in some of the old pitches. Not necessarily leading them, but just, you know, taking a view at them, we’ve, we’ve. We’ve seen as as. Clients have needed more from us, rising that we’ve gone from having, you know, what were, you know, like a 20 page. Ditch and when in the old days of PPC only to having just bolting everything in and so I’ve had to come in and look at those pictures and really think about how we structure the stories that you don’t have. You know, here’s the 1st 30 pages on Google Page and then here’s the next 20 pages. Facebook, and then on Tiktok and then on SEO then on CRO, so he’s trying to build a coherent story, so that, yeah, I’ve I’ve had to do. I’m and I. I’ve enjoyed doing that and I’m I’m I’m I’m enjoying. I’m enjoying being, you know, more involved. In that area, also responsible for the culture at push. You know that kind of, it’s that kind of the buck stops with me there. If we have a crappy culture, it’s on me. It’s. A good culture? You know, probably try and take the credit as well. Is is the you know, probably as you know, you know all all all agency cultures took a bit of a kick in during COVID, you know COVID years which are now you know behind us I believe because people couldn’t feel the culture because they’re all working. Come home permanently. Yeah. And so. And then we also anyone that joined in that period, you know, never got to feel what the company. It was like, but we’ve introduced, you know, lots of different things and we’re back generally in three days a week which. Seems to work. Fine. We we’re very flexible with that. We had regular off-site. So next week I’m away with our senior team we away for. Like 3 nights. Sort of planning the next six months, we’ll do that. You know, obviously every six months. So yeah, the cold. The cold, cold are strong. So yeah, to this your odds I’ve got more involved in selling more involved in culture and I’m enjoying.
Chris Simmance (Host)
Which is awesome because. It if, if you weren’t enjoying it then and you were just doing it because you had to do it, it would be you. You probably wouldn’t do the culture bit. Very well. Let’s leave it there. So what’s the what’s the plan in the next 12 months if we do season 312 months time, what’s going to be the this? Is what we have achieved. What’s what’s on their cards?
Steve Hyde (Guest)
So I think we’ll have, we’ll have achieved, as you know, a significant amount of growth in terms of our overall commercial revenue. Moment. You know, we are, we’ve we’ve probably because we’ve been PC first our our profitability hasn’t been where I’d like it to be, but we’ll, we’ll have, we’ll have improved. Looking at looking at, I would imagine we’ll. I’ll be telling a. Story of really big transitions so.
V.O. Guy
If I think.
Steve Hyde (Guest)
Of it. And and and just give you an example when. When will the new? Starters joining us, Chris, we have. We take, we take them for an induction. It’s always myself or Ricky that will take them through an induction, which is the story of push and we break it down into chapters and within those chapters there are a couple of pivotal moments. Like any business story. So one of them is in 2012 where we. We decided we were doing everything, so we started 2007 and like a lot of businesses, when you start you take everything someone says, you say, yeah, what about e-mail marketing? Yeah. What about branding? Of course, yeah. Easy. Yeah. We’re doing it all. It wasn’t.
Chris Simmance (Host)
In 2000 and.
Steve Hyde (Guest)
12 that we really thought, you know what we. Focus and we were the bit. That clients kept coming. Back to us on was PBC, which that’s the first sort of like strategic. Yeah, we took a decision. We took a decision to not do SEO in. 2012 and move away from that. Because it wasn’t our natural expertise. The next sort of. Strategic shift really probably was in the. Era of around about you know. 2016. And so as we became a a channel partner with Google and we, we we we rode on that that wave for four. Years and and and until. Like kind of the COVID era.
Chris Simmance (Host)
And and and.
Steve Hyde (Guest)
We’ve made, I think now. So you asked the question what? Well, what’s it gonna look like in, you know, 12 months or a year’s time? I I think you’ll see. That we’ll be talking about. A very different company, I think you’ll. Look differently. So what? Whatever the site looks like today. Or when everyone anyone’s looking at. This it will. Look quite different. It will feel a little less agency like, and a lot more consulted. It will probably feel a little bit more serious. I don’t mean that I don’t. Think we’ll ever lose that? Sense of fun, but it will. It needs to appeal to bigger businesses, yeah. You know in in a way that.
Chris Simmance (Host)
Perhaps back in?
Steve Hyde (Guest)
The day we we you know we we, we. Were we were, perhaps. A bit more playful with the way that we. You know, positioned ourselves and you know all the things that I talked to you about consultancy, even training, Chris, we’re we’re beginning to to to do a lot more training.
Chris Simmance (Host)
Which is a great gateway. Into additional services that are, you know, aligned to that for.
Steve Hyde (Guest)
Yeah. Yeah. So, so I think you’ll see we never when we started the business in 2007, we did not say let’s go build an agency. It happened accidentally because, well, because what initially attracted us was was Google Adwords. So so as it was called at the time. And then for them. But we we got tracked to Google Adwords, we never said let’s go and build an agency that kind of stuff that we kind of stumbled into that in about 2000. Well, at the where people started to call us an agency at, but I think when you look next, I’m not saying we won’t be called an agency, but we look we’ll we’ll I think some of our our clan, our tribe, you’ll see more of a sort of. In that space rubbing up against, you know, the consultancy space. And yeah, I think that will happen inevitably. I’m beginning to see people making.
Chris Simmance (Host)
It it it? It feels like a natural transition for businesses that are quite mature, like yours to. Not to say to to approximate a WPP style type model, but the IT seems that the the split is is, is is happening in quite a lot of senses, some some are. Always going to be relatively small niche ish agencies that are doing quite a lot of delivery, as well as some consultancy stuff. But the further on that consultancy angle you end. The more you end up in like a management consultancy land and that’s where you’ll be in the same room with. Other people. Who offer those? Services, but in different departments I guess.
Steve Hyde (Guest)
Yeah, very much so. And you know, if I look at the skills that the team will. Need you know we? We we we’ve been saying this for. Some time that that. The technical skills have been the key focus that we’ve had on, but we’ve we’ve been trying to build up commercial skills, commercial understanding now, modern skills within the team and I think they’ll come to the fore much more. So I I think you’ll see it’s more much more in that space. And and I’m. I’m confident we’ll we’ll we’ll be. You know, playing well. There, we’ve got some good plans in, in, in place and some good leaders. That can that, yeah.
Chris Simmance (Host)
Some some of the some of the training that the MG Centre does with with agencies that are going into that kind of focus is is like a consultancy style LED account management training, critical thinking stuff. The stuff that critical thinking right up front when they get through the door. So then as they grow in their car. Here they can account, manage better and manage the manage their teams better and things like that and and actually you you you know the trainer that we use Anna Marsden and we skied with her. So she’s the she’s the the person who delivers all of that awesome training and and and. Yeah, she we we the the aim of it is to kind of build. Better people from great people that people. Are hiring, so you know. You say to a you say to anyone who works in any agency. What’s an account manager? And they’ll almost always answer something slightly different, but fundamentally it’s it’s quite clear what one should be and what one shouldn’t be. And I think with the right critical thinking, training upfront and then some good account management skills, you can you those two combined with the industry expertise you you could be a great management consultant.
Steve Hyde (Guest)
Yeah, definitely, definitely and I think. We it’s, it’s just going to get stronger, bigger believe the the the likes of push and and you know many of the other agencies that have come from this position will they will they will challenge some of the bigger consultancies as literally great value offering to them equally. Well, let’s go. When you look at the new entrance into the market and you’ve got, you know, you’ve got young guys and girls and you’re coming in and positioning themselves as. Tick tock agents. But they don’t necessarily have the kind of the heritage or the trust, or, you know, 16 years of experience. I’m sure they’ll build that and I. Wish them the luck, the luck. In that space, but I think some of the clients that we’re talking to do want to see a little bit more, a little bit more history. Around delivery beyond. Say you know a couple couple, yeah.
Chris Simmance (Host)
I I I think if you. If you start an agency based on a single channel now and an emerging one at that, you will either grow and grow with it and evolve the agency, or you will not. Grow and you. Will become some someone else’s business eventually, but you know. All the best of. Luck to these people because you. You know there needs to be. Someone following behind you. Yeah, absolutely. And.
Steve Hyde (Guest)
We and and challenging you and keeping you on. Your toes and everything else. So very much so. And it’s, you know, it’s not easy building business. It’s it’s. Yeah, anyone any of they need luck. They don’t they don’t need they need they don’t need they don’t need people. Us, you know, you know bushings in a mill, and I regularly speak to you. I get people contacting me. Linkedin’s are nothing which talk about they get regularly contacting me, saying, look, you’ve got a great business. Can I can I? Can I reach out and. I always in that instance. I will always try and speak to someone and say yeah, and they’re trying to do something similar. I’ll try and speak to them cause I I don’t mean this in a I’m. Don’t mean this in an anyway Arab. I don’t. I don’t necessarily see them as a threat.
Chris Simmance (Host)
There, there’s enough lunch on the table.
Steve Hyde (Guest)
There’s loads, there’s loads about. The competition I always say the. Competition out there is ignorance is ignorance. By a long way. It’s not. Yeah, it’s not no other. It’s generally not. Other agencies. That’s one of the biggest misconceptions. Had when I started the business, I thought the uppercase other agencies.
Chris Simmance (Host)
Yeah, and and and and you know, I, I I obviously wish them the best of luck and hopefully we’ll speak before 12 months has passed and that because I’d love to hear more, more about as things are growing and but between now and the next time everyone else listens to you on the podcast, hopefully we get that, that, that story of evolution continuing.
Steve Hyde (Guest)
I’m sure you will.
Chris Simmance (Host)
Thanks very much Steve for coming on.
Steve Hyde (Guest)
Take care. Cheers.
Chris Simmance (Host)
Cheers, and in our next episode we will revisit another agency leader and see how their last year has been. So thanks very much for listening and hopefully, speak to you soon.