Episode Six – Using Webinars as a Digital Agency Influencer Marketing Tool

𝗖𝗵𝗿𝗶𝘀 𝗦𝗶𝗺𝗺𝗮𝗻𝗰𝗲 

Hello. Hello. Hello, everyone. Before I, before I even introduce you, Anton, not that I need to introduce you. I just want to say this has been the longest awaited webinar that I’ve planned. You were the first person I’ve planned. The webinar with. But it’s just taken so long to get here. I’m so excited. Everyone, this is Anton. 

Anton Shulke 

Yeah, I remember when we agreed it was, it was not. It was. Yeah. When was something and when they said March you said. 

𝗖𝗵𝗿𝗶𝘀 𝗦𝗶𝗺𝗺𝗮𝗻𝗰𝗲 

In November, yeah. 

Anton Shulke 

It’s kind of. Joke. Yeah. You know, when you’re planning March? Yeah. And he will will match. 

𝗖𝗵𝗿𝗶𝘀 𝗦𝗶𝗺𝗺𝗮𝗻𝗰𝗲 

We’re finally here. We’re finally here. Thanks so much for for a being patient and and be, you know, agreeing to to, to join us on the webinar. Thanks so much again. And and I think that no one knows this subject better than you do. I think I believe based on all the advice you’ve given me over the years. But before we, you know, rather than just sort of jump straight into things, uh, let’s warm ourselves up a little bit, maybe warm ourselves up. It’s only 8 degrees in London right now. I don’t know what it’s like in Spain. What what’s it like for you? 

Anton Shulke 

It’s not much, much, much woman for she’s. Probably like about 10. OK, there’s sun shining. Sun is, it’s not. Too bad, but. He inside. It’s it’s it’s it’s really, really cold. I I wanted to put my do. Them because I. Work for Google Google T-shirt. But I said you said just bloody cold. Sorry but stupid. 

𝗖𝗵𝗿𝗶𝘀 𝗦𝗶𝗺𝗺𝗮𝗻𝗰𝗲 

Yeah, I I I. 

Anton Shulke 

Typical for pool. Yeah, whereas typical typical for. 

𝗖𝗵𝗿𝗶𝘀 𝗦𝗶𝗺𝗺𝗮𝗻𝗰𝗲 

I wouldn’t want you shivering on a webinar. 

Anton Shulke 

Hot countries in the winter it’s because everything is kind of adapted to hot. Weather and when it’s not hot. 

Speaker 

It’s not good. 

𝗖𝗵𝗿𝗶𝘀 𝗦𝗶𝗺𝗺𝗮𝗻𝗰𝗲 

And and and and. How are things at Duda? It’s it seems consistent adaptions of the platform and cool things going on there. 

Anton Shulke 

Yeah, do the. It’s plenty of innovation. Everything is new. I I personally along flex what is Flex editor which is. We we won’t. Go, go going to because because I because they introduce new thing in marketing team, everyone has to to give a presentation. For some particular feature, Felix said it again. And that playing with. It and it’s it’s it’s it’s it’s absolutely fantastic. So sometimes you you should you should you should. 

𝗖𝗵𝗿𝗶𝘀 𝗦𝗶𝗺𝗺𝗮𝗻𝗰𝗲 

You wait. You’ll be you’ll be. You’ll be moving to a different department. You’ll be. A developer next. 

Anton Shulke 

I don’t, I don’t. 

𝗖𝗵𝗿𝗶𝘀 𝗦𝗶𝗺𝗺𝗮𝗻𝗰𝗲 

So. So we’re here to talk about something which I I know that you, you know, like inside and out. And I think that you’ve come up. Forgive me if I get this wrong and I really want I. I want to hear this as well for for for the I think for the probably the first full time. How did you get into the like the influencer marketing piece? Because. You’ve been doing it since it was cool before. It was called that really. 

Anton Shulke 

It’s it’s a. It’s a long, long story. So our story started with in 2008 fantastically, which I had nothing to do with, with marketing at that time in Spain. Well, I’m here in Spain again. But I used. I used to live in. Spain at that time, Valencia. And I used to have. A lunch bar? Believe me. Or not. Please do believe me. 

𝗖𝗵𝗿𝗶𝘀 𝗦𝗶𝗺𝗺𝗮𝗻𝗰𝗲 

Everyone believes always. 

Anton Shulke 

And yeah, and crisis, if you remember crisis in. In Europe, in Spain was horrible, horrible crisis, 26% of unemployment, those kind of people didn’t really have money and sometimes we had like full adult gears. 031 gene tonic and sitting all night long with gintung because spies they do like fears they can’t live without Fiesta, but no money so. I had to. Shut it down because it was just. Losing money. And I went back to Kiev and I have some business proposal there. Now it sounds. Horrible because, but it was business with with Russia at that time, but. It was a long time ago. I think it was 2012. So all 2013 and but it didn’t happen because my dad happened relationship kind of broke and and I basically. End up in, in keys and and thinking. What I’m going to. Do right now so. What I do say? I still need. To eat and my family still need to eat. So I I decide just OK for time being, I will be teaching English and Spanish, believe me or not. And and I had a client who was from local marketing and SEO company. 

Speaker 

Yeah, yeah. 

Anton Shulke 

And the idea was they were doing all model superando was they were doing webinars. And on the weapon, everyone who registered then they, then they call them to have plenty, plenty of balls on the cell floor and they try to sell the successful selling online courses online marketing course in Ukraine, in Ukraine. So. And he decided he want to conquer. He study English school some some some time ago, and so he employed me to refresh his English and do the same, do the same but for the. Rest of the. World doing Japanese in. English and just selling them cooks in. English, which they didn’t. So after couple. Of lessons classes with him. I I for myself. For young learners. And it would be much easier to teach. Me. Something about marketing. Do this job. Maybe not things for him. Then to refresh his English in order to be reasonably fluent and just just go go. And and and and do your job. What? What you’re doing right now? So, but I decide I’m not. Going to tell it to him because if I. If I tell you something, you don’t really lie, you probably will be against it and. Yeah, all the of all the best way to really to to infiltrate it. It’s just just like, leave it on the corner of the table and and let it let it leave there and the person pick it up. OK, not reach him. Pick it up. Think about, think about it. It and. Think about it and and after that, when he decides it’s his idea, people loves their own idea. He will just step in, say. Look, why don’t. We do actually exactly after couple of weeks. He designs his ID even I kind. Of put it couple of times here and there. And he said. Look, I thought today, why don’t we teach? You marketing and you will be doing this job as household started, yeah. 

𝗖𝗵𝗿𝗶𝘀 𝗦𝗶𝗺𝗺𝗮𝗻𝗰𝗲 

And and this is the this and this is where you get to where you are with the the the cache of of of knowledge and influences in your pocket you could. 

Anton Shulke 

I didn’t do anything. Yeah, because. Yeah, I didn’t know absolutely anything. I didn’t know anything. So I know I have to do, and I have to do like, I can’t. I can’t remember how many webinars a month in order to get that. 

𝗖𝗵𝗿𝗶𝘀 𝗦𝗶𝗺𝗺𝗮𝗻𝗰𝗲 

Change the course. Of history. 

Anton Shulke 

Money, which I’ve been. Promised. Yeah, and. And I didn’t know anything about. Influence and and I just. Just stepped go around around bringing people and and everything. And obviously I I I learn, learn, learn things. For example, SEO, SEO, people love to talk, love to talk. It gives them a big possibility to speak, especially good company, especially in a good company. They love it already, they love it already and I I never pay. I never pay it for for speakers or every speaker who asked for being paid. I said no. It’s a submit of. And it is matter of principle, not that of. Course I understand. Everyone needs to get money and everything. Free free baby nurse and. You start paying. Someone this world is so small. Everyone knows everyone. 

𝗖𝗵𝗿𝗶𝘀 𝗦𝗶𝗺𝗺𝗮𝗻𝗰𝗲 

Sorry. No, no, no. I mean, this literally ties really closely into like a question of mine is like it. It seems like how you would approach, uh, someone to influence for you, or how you would would like to be in approached as an influencer. It’s quite important like. You just say about paying money and there’s. There’s there’s. Few approaches which you know that you try and work with right. 

Anton Shulke 

Sure. OK. When we’re talking about influencer marketing, I think there are two major major approaches and because of my same rush, same rush history and I used to work for SEMA for five years, I kind of. Call one approach as you approach and one approach PPC approach starting with PPC approach. OK it’s very. Is this is the? Main Main actually style of influence. When people say influence what it. Usually means this. PC approaches is name I I invented so. How how it works? You have a product what whatever it is does. And you think this this influences? This influencer is has the right reach, right price probably. And the right audience for you. So. So you ask him. Or her even better. OK, how about I give you product, you create video or whatever you you create whatever channel box for you. I’ll give you that much money and you will. Keep this video. For I don’t. Know for 20 days it’s how it works, isn’t it? On especially on Instagram? Or maybe the 20 days you just. Your video 20 times and. This influencer? Absolutely it has no interest in your product in terms it might, but generally speaking it. Doesn’t it’s not affiliate. He doesn’t get any Commission anything. He just. Got your money? He’s done his video, he put it on to his orders. That’s. It as. How influencer works? As PPC way and I’m not trying to say. Is bad way. PC is great, BPC is fantastic. It’s very different from a silly but it it works if it works for you. So if if you. Pay. I don’t know $1000, but I get. For tutors, fantastic, just just scale. Work with different approach which I call SEO approach and which is very very different and how how we work. So we work. I’d like to establish relationship, for example, starting everyone is influenced some, some small case. Siemens is a great influence. And then thank you, sibling. 

𝗖𝗵𝗿𝗶𝘀 𝗦𝗶𝗺𝗺𝗮𝗻𝗰𝗲 

Really. Well, it’s been. Said here now for sure 100%. 

Anton Shulke 

Yeah, and I tried to establish a relationship with you, and I tried to. This relationship is not trade relationship. It’s not that I’m. Giving you money to do this? No, of course. Everyone needs money. Everyone needs to gain money. So. But we try to establish relationship. Influencer or we try. To push this influencer so influencer get exposure to, for example, to our audience. With the same. Rush. Or do that today and get something out of it or this. This kind of thing. It’s it’s how we we work with influencer so. And obviously when you you do come pains which influence when you pay monies, you can probably handle many, many, many, many campaigns. I don’t know usually usually use. 

𝗖𝗵𝗿𝗶𝘀 𝗦𝗶𝗺𝗺𝗮𝗻𝗰𝗲 

Yeah. Well, it’s more transactional, isn’t it? It’s that you don’t have to put too much time in in, you know, it’s it’s. Here’s the money. Thanks for the influence. 

Anton Shulke 

Yeah, it is. It is the. 

𝗖𝗵𝗿𝗶𝘀 𝗦𝗶𝗺𝗺𝗮𝗻𝗰𝗲 

With the relationship you have to, you have to remember the conversation you had previously and the time you saw them last. And the thing that. They like to do and that sort of thing. 

Anton Shulke 

Which means you can’t. You can’t do that money. Basically, you might have like 100 influence, but realistically, with whom you constantly talking or even meeting? Yeah, it’s it’s not that. 

𝗖𝗵𝗿𝗶𝘀 𝗦𝗶𝗺𝗺𝗮𝗻𝗰𝗲 

The the irony here is. We have a relationship. We’ve done some webinars, we’ve done some events and things like that together. The irony here is the first time I ever met you, you actually gave me money. 

Anton Shulke 

Didn’t. Yeah, OK. 

Speaker 

Yeah, it was. 

Anton Shulke 

It was working money. It was, yeah, it was a coin. 

𝗖𝗵𝗿𝗶𝘀 𝗦𝗶𝗺𝗺𝗮𝗻𝗰𝗲 

Yeah, so anyone who? Anyone who Anton gives a like a a a vintage custom coin to at any point in the future if you’ll meet. If you meet Anton and he gives you a coin, expect an e-mail. But I think with the relationship building thing, it makes it stronger, right? So you you know that you know, if you if you personally were to move to another come company or your career changes the relationship can can can stay if there’s a fit and I think. 

Anton Shulke 

It usually it, yeah. 

𝗖𝗵𝗿𝗶𝘀 𝗦𝗶𝗺𝗺𝗮𝗻𝗰𝗲 

When you look. 

Anton Shulke 

It usually, even if the company is slightly. Different and so it’s. Feet are the thing. Yeah. It’s. It’s like a seal. It takes a longer time to get there, but it stays my it stays much longer as well. Like, this is your. So it’s it’s nothing to do with. Well, the, the, the, the. 

𝗖𝗵𝗿𝗶𝘀 𝗦𝗶𝗺𝗺𝗮𝗻𝗰𝗲 

The principles makes total sense. With PPC you stop paying, you stop receiving. With SEO you put the effort in now and you see the rewards for longer. A longer period of time. So if I’m running a digital agency. Yeah. So GJ just said it’s kind of quid pro quo sometimes when you have a when when you have that kind of an A approach when when you’re running a, a an agency, let’s say you’re running a an agency which you want your agents to get better profile, you don’t mind going to events, you don’t mind speaking at events. Is it a good idea? For for you as an agency leader or someone in the agency to look for opportunities that may be typically where someone like yourself might be looking for an influencer to to take some roles where where would they start? 

Anton Shulke 

Now of of course, for if you’re running an agency and you have something to say to say because many people, they, they, they, they talking and at the. End of this this I, I said. I remember every single can’t remember. What he was saying. So not not everyone. Has something to say, but if you do have something to say, yes, try to use every single opportunity. And it’s it’s, it’s how I say and the clever ones, clever ones. OK, my maybe the guys who already everything that they don’t really care, they only go on very established events, very established when they are so or podcast. But guys who are not that. Well, some people still still. Goes they probably have to go to. Almost every single. Opportunity because first, why not? Of course, yes, there is a time, time and and and and your time can cost money. But. For example, you, you, you you do some webinar or a podcast with someone not very well known, but you don’t know. Maybe he and his podcast will be very well known in couple of years. Is what I. Think happened. Happened to to me, to us when I started. Nobody know me. Nobody know that. Company I represent, but they still wish to. Get very, very. Interested, I guess, including including Bill Slowsky late Bill Slowsky, including Barry Schwartz for, for example, and fish. So say say it’s worth worth trying. Who? Who knows? So I think if your agency or agency owner or or or whatever and you have something to say, you have to go to and use every single opportunity and and and do it. 

𝗖𝗵𝗿𝗶𝘀 𝗦𝗶𝗺𝗺𝗮𝗻𝗰𝗲 

And I think a lot of that comes in, you know, a lot of agency leaders are quite happy building an agency, quietly building an agency themselves without having to be the loud voice in the room or the voice that’s everywhere. Some like to do that. And it works independently for each one of them. And I think that. When if, like you say, when, if you want to do this and you want. To uh, go to events you want to speak and webinars you want to speak on podcasts and things like that, and the person that’s maybe looking for whoever you are doesn’t know who you are or may be looking for you. So you have to go to them and and you have to start conversations and start relationships and. Things like that. If it’s more e-commerce product type stuff, you’re more you’re likely to get approached. If you actually are known in the space because of the. Look, if you’re if. You’re running in a. 

Anton Shulke 

Yeah, but people also buying from people. People. Yeah. If you step with Coca-Cola, you just grab Coca-Cola and go. It’s not emotional, but otherwise people are. You buy from people. So if I know you and I know you do this and I believe you do this very well, so probably. Go and buy from you. Even someone is giving me better offer in terms of money. And everything I think, yeah, I know this guy. I know he’s he’s doing well. We had a coffee with him. He explained to me I. Do understand how he thinks so I. Probably will stick with with him. That’s good. 

𝗖𝗵𝗿𝗶𝘀 𝗦𝗶𝗺𝗺𝗮𝗻𝗰𝗲 

So where would you like if, if you’re if you’re wanting to, you know? Grow your agency. You’re looking to build your business, but you’re going to go down the the influencer approach, and they’ve come to you say. For example or. Or other versions of you in other businesses that work. With people who? Have something to say of influence and of. Well, you and where would you, I mean beyond obviously webinars like this one where would, where would you put them? What would you do? How would it work? Because it’s very easy to say. I I’m going to be on all of these things. But you know how? How? How do you do it? There’s a lot of work. That goes into this, isn’t it? It’s not just a handshake. 

Anton Shulke 

You, you, you. You’re asking me from from which point from me who is working. 

𝗖𝗵𝗿𝗶𝘀 𝗦𝗶𝗺𝗺𝗮𝗻𝗰𝗲 

Perspective. From your perspective, working with influence. Users, but also so you put a lot of work in and decide where they should go, what should be best for them and and if I wanted to use. Influence as a marketing tool. So I speak at events. I go to this. I do this etc. And where. What are the best ways for you, Anton, the person that, that, that marionnettes, the the influencers? What would you, where would you put people? How? What do you find works best? 

Anton Shulke 

OK, first, you’re also share something with your clients will be the best influence for your product. If if you have a product, yeah, always you have, you have more clients, no product it doesn’t, it doesn’t doesn’t work. But for example when I work for samurai with. Was and still still is one of the leader. Of the SEO tools and it was much easier. A lot of people wanted to be associated with the same rush, so you can’t you, you, you. You can use these people, but always before using these people, even you. This company, like Syria, Hewlett position of strength, which do this much less strength. Even unit positions and you still have to find a way of of of good, good cooperation. So what what people can get out out of you as well? I know you’re doing. You’ve done and you will be doing more webinars with. Believe me or not, but. His first weapon was my weaponer. Yeah, and. 

𝗖𝗵𝗿𝗶𝘀 𝗦𝗶𝗺𝗺𝗮𝗻𝗰𝗲 

He influenced me to talk to you. 

Anton Shulke 

OK, see, see influence. Everywhere. So he’s done a presentation killing the Giants. I can’t remember how many years ago was that? I was about an SEO world. The smaller company can can can beat bigger one because more journal and do. Some some books and and everything and his first brightness hero speech was exactly killing the Giants, so modern modernised. And and make it better but. It make him. Kind of famous. I mean we we yeah, we we kind of push him because he was so good. So he just just jump and go to Brighton as he went after that and we have after that we had with him serious can’t remember was the videos coming was was named. Some time ago was short video. And they’re explaining, we put it on the. Same branch block, this kind of thing. I’m not really sure I’m answering your question. 

𝗖𝗵𝗿𝗶𝘀 𝗦𝗶𝗺𝗺𝗮𝗻𝗰𝗲 

I no, I think I think. You are thinking that so. Let’s say for argument sake you’ve got 3 influencers that that you that you work with as Anton’s live stream guy from Duda. Now there’s lots of different places you can you can put them that makes more value from from them, but there’s lots of different things that that they would want to say. Now, sometimes you’re going to have to say to them. You’re not going to be very good on a webinar, but you’d be great if you wrote an article. You’d be great writing an article, but I don’t want an article. I want you on a podcast. How do you have those kinds of conversations? Because. I know from experience the only reason that I’ve had 78 episodes of my podcast recording is because it is audio only. So I’ve had to say to some people, you can come that you want to do these things, but you’re I’ve made it more comfortable for you to be good at what you do by by being. 

Anton Shulke 

You you always you try to make them comfortable and some people are not for webinars or some people are not natural born. Some people are some people are or some people can can learn and can get better. So yes, some people are not not very good. You don’t use them for webinar, you use them for podcast. If you do have a podcast or you move them for someone else, podcast. First, or you ask them. OK, look how how you’re writing an article and everything, but always writing an article if it’s full scale article usually involves money because it’s like 6-8 hours of work and everything podcast is much less so for example. Have to be absolutely honest, have been prepared. For this one so. Just just jump in and. 

𝗖𝗵𝗿𝗶𝘀 𝗦𝗶𝗺𝗺𝗮𝗻𝗰𝗲 

That’s the that’s the beauty. This is why we this is so I love running these in a in a nice kind of conversational way because it means that like. 

Anton Shulke 

And I hope it works. 

𝗖𝗵𝗿𝗶𝘀 𝗦𝗶𝗺𝗺𝗮𝗻𝗰𝗲 

We’re not preparing like fake statements or we’re not fake, you know, making it, it feels more authentic to, you know, to to, to get it wrong and and to talk about stuff in a different way without preparing. And I think I think. That there’s some I think you can do quite from this point of view in terms of where you would put. Influences. I think if you’re if you’re looking at running your growing your agency, you want to get out there, say, you know, let’s let’s use Ross Tavendale as a great example because you know he he he he’s he when he to speak to events. He really knows what he’s talking about but. He knows where he wants to go because he knows where he’s going to be, have the most benefit for his business. So if I want to use influence as a marketing tool for myself, for my business, and become in inverted commas an influencer for for my business, I need to know that the best place for me is speaking on stage at an event. Uh or and and the things that I would I can control on my own things. So I obviously have my own podcast and so on. But if I want to speak on other people’s for other people’s content, then I need to go to them and say, hey, you’re running an event pitch for the event. That’s great. If you have a relationship with an organisation that wants you to. To be on their posters. Then that’s a totally different level of of influence, which you’re everyone wins and a. Bit like what DJ said is a. There’s a quid. Pro quo there, you know, you get on on their posters and you get new clients, but you also produce an awful lot of content which help them get new clients. And I think if I’m running, if I’m if if if I want to use influence as a marketing tool. In my business. Then I need to be in the right place. Just. Like all marketing efforts. 

Anton Shulke 

Yeah, but what you said you want to use yourself as an influencer for your own business. Fantastic roster. And there was great example even was an idiotic situation. I can’t say which which, but very famous American based SCO conference. Wanted him, really. They ask quick couple of times to talk to rose and and answer Rose would be there, they said. Rose would be fantastic. And he said he doesn’t want to do that. And he also said this. 

Speaker 

That’s that’s. 

𝗖𝗵𝗿𝗶𝘀 𝗦𝗶𝗺𝗺𝗮𝗻𝗰𝗲 

Because it wouldn’t have been a fit for him, for the business or for the clients or something like that. And I. Think you know where you want? 

Anton Shulke 

It’s. It’s what he thought. It’s what he thought. I’m not not that sure, but it’s what he thought. Yes. 

𝗖𝗵𝗿𝗶𝘀 𝗦𝗶𝗺𝗺𝗮𝗻𝗰𝗲 

If you’ve got. An influence in an area in a space because you really love it. But you’re you’ve got very, very small AC quiet voice in the large crowd, especially in digital digital agency space and digital marketing. Everyone’s got a loud voice and everyone’s got an opinion. Is it better from the perspective of like yourself? If you’re looking for someone to do some influence to work with Duda? Is it better for you to have someone who is much bigger and well known but doesn’t really understand or give a damn about the product? Or is it better to have someone who’s got a smaller audience but really gets it and understands and kind of loves the space that they’re in? 

Anton Shulke 

Yeah, products is a. Separate method depends what we want to. I always wanted to write on my wall, but we’re arranging now, so I’m not really sure I’m going to be. In a rented flat. Write only work with people who see the value working with you. I I think it’s extremely important because I work with some big people with some small. People I I. Want to put in words Commons because. 

𝗖𝗵𝗿𝗶𝘀 𝗦𝗶𝗺𝗺𝗮𝗻𝗰𝗲 

Yeah, we we know what we mean in terms. 

Anton Shulke 

Sometimes, yeah. Yeah. OK, so. 

𝗖𝗵𝗿𝗶𝘀 𝗦𝗶𝗺𝗺𝗮𝗻𝗰𝗲 

Of compute and the spread. 

Anton Shulke 

Yeah, and sometimes you’re working with a big girl. Does woman Woman doesn’t with a huge, huge person and you say, OK, let’s do this. And you understand this person, OK? For some reason he agrees, or she agrees. Doesn’t really want. To do that, and usually ended up is some. And if you make your face and it will be so much effort so. I I try. Try to avoid unless because obviously I’m in unless I order to do that, but otherwise. I wouldn’t do this. I wouldn’t do this. Let’s **** always. If you find influencer who can also influence his door this. Is not great either. Yeah, but, but he might. He might go grow up. Who knows? So I would try to make it balance, but first first. I think I think if someone doesn’t see value to working with you and you cannot really show him this value, that is probably worst case. Probably I would I wouldn’t do, I wouldn’t recommend. Yeah, of course everyone wants to. Have German. Yeah, yeah. But it’s Germany will won’t go to everyone as first and it’s it’s it’s sometimes it’s probably you. You going to stick with with maybe less known, but first, who knows this stuff, which is important, because sometimes you bring. Someone. And he, he’s just looking at. No one really keep your ship. Can I see? Can I see? ****. Uh, you did twice so. 

𝗖𝗵𝗿𝗶𝘀 𝗦𝗶𝗺𝗺𝗮𝗻𝗰𝗲 

It’s good. It’s fine. We don’t. It’s this is part of the part. Of the fun of unscripted Ness and if. If if anyone had the problem with it. 

Anton Shulke 

To put it. 

𝗖𝗵𝗿𝗶𝘀 𝗦𝗶𝗺𝗺𝗮𝗻𝗰𝗲 

Yeah, we’ll do that on the on the post edit. But you know, I’ve had a, a cool question on Twitter from Andy and I, I actually I’ve seen this a lot recently that there’s there’s lots of agencies that like are influencer agencies. Lots of agencies like to add new services in order to to sell more products for more services. More stuff. And so Andy, I think saying that they’ve seen lots of agencies offering it as a. Service so should. Should I add it? To my agency, what do you think there? 

Anton Shulke 

OK, they they. Probably hear talking about this. What I I. Call PC agency so they. Database or whatever it is database of influencer who can do things for that money and and they can cheque their audience. There are plenty of agencies like. That so if you do it, if you know what you’re doing and. If you can do it for. The right price, of course. And you go go for. It why not everything? It’s. Like agency, doing SCO and don’t do PC. For for why? Why they don’t do PC? Because. They have no, no people. Who knows PC do someone who knows PC very well. Cause go for it. Do it. Yeah, you. Just take extra extra. Money as the same as I remember we talking talking with you and I was asking was is easier for the HSC OPC agencies to pursue. To do web design, we don’t know what. Yeah, if you if you know what you’re doing, if you know how you’re gonna do. Of course, go for. Six extra money and it’s more it’s probably extra service you can. Bring more car. You bring, you bring client for your influencer service as this client. After that, take your. PC content marketing. And and coaching as well. 

𝗖𝗵𝗿𝗶𝘀 𝗦𝗶𝗺𝗺𝗮𝗻𝗰𝗲 

Yeah. And I think I think if so, my advice, Andy on this is if you don’t understand. It don’t offer it. One uh two is you need to be able to deliver it properly, whether you understand it or not, and it does depend on the type of influence and I think you’re talk like and and said it’s like someone with a database style type thing which is fine. So what I typically advise agencies Anton, I don’t know if we’ve spoken about this before, is that you kind of can niche in two ways. One would be to niche to a specific industry and only offer like you can offer loads of different services but to one type of industry. Or you can offer one type of service to basically any industry, so only SEO to anyone or SEO. PPC influencer, social media, et cetera to hair care or something like that. Now I would argue that if you’re running an agency which is niched. Into a sector or an area or an expertise, then it’s probably valuable to add influencer marketing as a service. Because you know that area well enough to understand that the influencer would have an impact if you just add it to a service as a full service agency that services everybody, you’re probably going to have a lot of headaches cause you have to pay. These people usually up front usually, and you don’t really understand what that, whether that person. Will actually help sell the product or the service that that your client may be asking for. I think it’s quite hard to to to answer without any more detail on that. But. I reckon you know, do it if you know how to do it, and you can do it. There’s no reason not to. But don’t do it if you’re doing it for all sectors, I think. What do you think? Yeah. I think one of the key things which I’ve learned and I’ve learned this the hard way, a little bit over the years is it has to be a fit both ways and whether it’s the product or whether a love for the product, sorry, or a love for the business that you’re doing the the work with now. I don’t know what your feelings are. On this, but would you? If you went for the PC approach, for example, would you be? Would you be comfortable paying an influencer who really hated your product but loved taking your money? 

Anton Shulke 

Or hate it is a strong word. If someone hates your product, I would. I wouldn’t. I wouldn’t. I would never, never do. Obviously with SEO influence our approach, you only try to use use influencer. Who? 

𝗖𝗵𝗿𝗶𝘀 𝗦𝗶𝗺𝗺𝗮𝗻𝗰𝗲 

Very much. 

Speaker 

Dislike your product. 

Anton Shulke 

Who loves you or the OR who really love your product? If, for example, Semrush was easy because it was always see what people most of them they use semrush was they know how to use so much? Yeah, some of them they they didn’t like it. Not everyone likes everything. Some of them prefer. Teachers, for example. Or or some something else and. It was absolutely no point from my point of view. Try try to persuade them and and and everything. So no, just just go for people who loves you. Product. Oh, and smash much is obviously. 

𝗖𝗵𝗿𝗶𝘀 𝗦𝗶𝗺𝗺𝗮𝗻𝗰𝗲 

Yeah, yeah. DJ, Another good point from another good point from GJ just there is if it doesn’t feel good for you as the person running the influencer, don’t go there. And I think the same point goes to like if if I was asked to do a a webinar or a podcast or speaker an event for a company. Which didn’t feel like it was a fit for me. Whether it not necessarily the audience, but maybe the business or the product or the service then it then it isn’t. You’re never gonna do your best for those people. 

Anton Shulke 

Yeah, absolutely agree. And I think you try to find the influence. Who, who, who likes your product? Or or. You introduce it for order and he likes or she likes it for that and loves the product. And you after that you convert him into. Personal friend hopefully and to brand advocate because you can you never will never convert. Someone in the brand that. Hates your brother. Yeah, OK. He can do. It for money. I remember I think as an old. Old Charlie Chaplin. Movie, but not not the old, not the the. The the little guy. I think it was kind of late, one lady and the guy was advertising the cognac or Brandy or. Something like that and so. They explained everything to her. He’s an old actor. Or something like. That they explain it to him, they say, OK, you have. To take a glass. And just make it very. And he’s done it, and he’s just doing. And like this. 

Speaker 

So you. Did actually. It’s acting like this. 

Anton Shulke 

So if if I can’t digest your product. I’m not gonna. Be good just to help to help. 

𝗖𝗵𝗿𝗶𝘀 𝗦𝗶𝗺𝗺𝗮𝗻𝗰𝗲 

Yeah, I I I agree. And I think that. The fit has to go many different ways, so I have this uh this saying which I use an awful lot and it’s and it. And I say it when it comes to things that are almost certainly around influencer marketing. Is it fun? Is it a fit? Is there a fee or do you flee and and it you you you don’t do whatever it is that someone might be asking just because it’s fun. If it’s you do it because it’s fun because you want to do it. It might have other benefits, which is great. It might be lovely to do and you might have a great time. You might travel somewhere, which is brilliant. Is it a fit? Is it? Am I going to be speaking or doing or behaving in some way that helps me get the outcome I’m looking for with the audience I’m trying to to get in front of or something like that? If there’s a fee, the chances are it’s a product based PPC style influencer type thing and and it has to be a fit. If it’s not a fit and you’re pet taking money, it’s not that. Ethical. Sometimes I think, and if, if, if none of those things are in place, you flee, you run away. You say no thank you. It’s. Not for me. And I think the same thing goes when. In the in the in the digital industry specifically, there’s. A. There’s a lot of. Speak at this thing. Do this thing for exposure and that does work. If it’s a fit or it’s fun. 

Anton Shulke 

Yeah, of course. If if you if if you know to hate this product and you. Just said uh. What’s the hell for money I’ll do. It and for exposure. You go somewhere and you. Down the conference. People think, yeah. You can you can do go down in your influence. For example, it’s interesting that most. Of great influences and not affiliates. This is this my my. Finding and they don’t want to be. Why? Because if you are fully, it’s kind of. Clear you’re affiliate. You. You got money. You can say whatever you are, and if you’re not using it, you you, you. Still you show. Your your opinion still is opinion. Not not influenced by by money. 

Speaker 

Yeah, yeah. 

𝗖𝗵𝗿𝗶𝘀 𝗦𝗶𝗺𝗺𝗮𝗻𝗰𝗲 

And and and you’re. You’re you’re totally right. And and and in a similar way. So with them with the OMG centre. We have 53 partner businesses. All of them offer something for a digital agency from like legal support through HR software and all of those things. And unless I’ve been directly told you can’t put us on this website without without it being an. Of of an affiliate agreement because of their rules around acquisition of from channels and things which. Is only one. Every single one. Of them is there without a charge, without a fee and without any payback or or referral fees or anything like that, because that way I can now I I can say out loud and confidently, the right people are offered these services rather than the people that have paid me the. The most money, shall we say now? Yeah. When you’re trying to influence people. If, if, if you see some of these influences, absolutely, 100% certain that they’re being paid for that. It only really impacts the people who don’t understand how this works, which is a lot of people obviously, and that’s why, you know, massive celebrities get paid lots and lots of money to be shown drinking a bottle of water on the side of the street. But if you understand how this all works, if they’re holding their their bottle and they’ve got the the the logo perfectly. Out the whole time and then. Like this then? Then you you know that it’s it’s kind of faked and lots of people will know that with the whole I don’t know if you see it in Spain there’s there’s this drink called Prime I think it’s called and I I don’t really understand why it’s so popular. Apparently it tastes terrible but I I fell into the. Influence, trap and drank it cause it. If everyone’s talking about it, everyone became an influencer to the on their at this one product and I think that it’s very easy to do that and. If you’re taking money, it might not be the best fit for you in the long term because the money could. 

Anton Shulke 

Yeah, obviously depends on on they will listen detail how much money and and everything. If you huge huge influence and you just just just not trying to monetize. Maybe maybe that. But if you’re still trying to achieve things, you probably should be very careful. 

𝗖𝗵𝗿𝗶𝘀 𝗦𝗶𝗺𝗺𝗮𝗻𝗰𝗲 

Yeah, I’ve had one question here from Sarah. I’m going to say, Sarah, if if you’ve got no budget, are there ways to use influencers now? I’m guessing that goes back towards your relationship end of the. 

Anton Shulke 

Yeah. And obviously, remember I said for example CU people, if you ask them right question if you put them in the right, right living room or room just with the right people, they like like to talk, they love to talk and you can exploit it. For example, so and you don’t have to pay. Them, of course, some of. Them they would. But you always can find the. Great guys and. Girls or women who who? Very, very. If if you’re talking because, well, we’re still talking about women influence marketing too, so, and if you’re talking about slightly more on this, you managed to get first, first reasonably big influence and and on your series of webinars, if you’re talking about webinars. And after that we can. Trying to exploit what I call the gallery things. You have one guy famous and after that you go to someone say OK, you know. Very already was on my webinar because do you know what? And when you have like 3 or 4. Five, it’s it’s. It is. You go to someone say yeah. Since those guys been been here, what about you? Of course, yeah. 

𝗖𝗵𝗿𝗶𝘀 𝗦𝗶𝗺𝗺𝗮𝗻𝗰𝗲 

Yeah, I went in. I went in and and and that hasn’t cost you any money necessarily. 

Anton Shulke 

Yeah, exactly. Yeah. 

𝗖𝗵𝗿𝗶𝘀 𝗦𝗶𝗺𝗺𝗮𝗻𝗰𝗲 

That’s awesome and. What one what? So coming from 2 perspective. Because you are an influencer in your own right, so you can answer this in two ways so. As someone who. Works with influencers. What would be one piece of advice you could give to people who want to use influencer marketing for themselves. 

Anton Shulke 

We’re talking about influencer marketing we’re talking about. Billionaires for influencer marketing. 

𝗖𝗵𝗿𝗶𝘀 𝗦𝗶𝗺𝗺𝗮𝗻𝗰𝗲 

Webinars for influencer marketing. But if you if you run, if you’re running webinars and what one piece of advice would you give someone who wants to come onto your webinars or other people’s webinars? To to, to, to, to, to. Run influence marketing them. 

Anton Shulke 

OK, about my main piece was not necessarily influencer marketing, but. Answer yourself very honestly why you’re doing this right now. Because doing webinars easy, you using stream yards probably 40 or $50.00 a month and it’s all easy, very intuitive and and everything, so every nowadays. Almost everyone can do. A webinar while you’re doing this webinar. And if you if. You have no answer or too many. The answers you probably do something wrong or you probably should stop here and really answers why why you doing this? So for example, we when when I’m doing. If if we went today for. My main goal, even even do the push me. All the time to say, OK, how about sailing things and everything? My main goal is influencer marketing, so I want to bring someone influence. And I want. To give this influence audience. And a little bit. Extra fame and everything, and sometimes I. Want to put some? Some more people, many less known and maybe connexion and always look in my my, my in all in the room. A lot of people. Met for for first time and after that they have a friendship or business. And everything and always. It it lives. Well outside of this. Webinar and I’m. Not really involved in it, but it always helps. All people always remember when they met and how it happened. All all these kind of things, so it it always helped look I. Forgot your question. 

𝗖𝗵𝗿𝗶𝘀 𝗦𝗶𝗺𝗺𝗮𝗻𝗰𝗲 

No. So so I mean. That the the question was one piece of advice, and I think that it that realistically your answer was a version of advice. I think that you. If, if, if. If you ask yourself, should I be on this webinar or why am I doing this webinar, the question is realistically not what should I or what am I doing on this. Webinar it’s should I put, what’s the end point? What? What’s the point of me doing this? And it’s not necessarily right now it’s what’s what. What? What am I trying to do this for? It may well be that you’re doing a smaller webinar for a for a business with a with a very narrow audience like the OMG. And that is something which you do which helps you and helps the OMG centre. But you also then that can be something which helps you get seen to be picked for do the webinars in the future by other. That you run. Or SEO ranking, do webinars and things like that. And I know that those sorts of things all nice and they they. Tied together, you you’re seeing one. 

Anton Shulke 

Or digital digital Olympus, for example. Digital. Doctor doing things, see. 

𝗖𝗵𝗿𝗶𝘀 𝗦𝗶𝗺𝗺𝗮𝗻𝗰𝗲 

There we go and and and I think that’s you know my my advice is if you’re if you really want to. Use webinars for influencer marketing. You like. You say you need to have some, you need to go to people you have a relationship with already that have some presence that have something to say and they give a damn about what they’re going to say. They actually care enough. And then, like you said, the gallery approach means that every time you do the next one. Someone else will want to be on it. 

Anton Shulke 

Definitely you know it it. It it always walk because? We we’re doing at the end of the month, so sorry, I’m I’m trying to be shameless people we’re doing webinar at the end of this month 29th of March. We’re doing it with suppress suppress with Bing. And always on on Bing API within this with with the with the basically highest ranking being engineer for Bruce Connell. I think his title slightly different but yeah it’s yeah. 

Speaker 

A big one, yeah. 

Anton Shulke 

Miss Mr Mr. Bean. 

Speaker 

It’s the. 

Anton Shulke 

Both Mr. Big boat, we call him among friends, so he will be and the body was agreed to host it. Lily Ray and Dwayne. First will be there as well. You won’t believe how many people. When I just just just publish it. On on Facebook. How many? Friends, just say, why did you? Ask me to be on this way. Yeah, but always you can’t have 20,000 people. 

𝗖𝗵𝗿𝗶𝘀 𝗦𝗶𝗺𝗺𝗮𝗻𝗰𝗲 

But but but those people will be on things that are ideal for them. Maybe later. 

Anton Shulke 

Yeah, yeah, sure. Someone said why you didn’t. You put me and you always answer. Yeah, we should. We should. We should have one another one. This one is already already complete. You everyone understands. You can’t put 20 people. On the webinar. So you have to use use if people wants to do it. Sometimes you have to use it and sometimes you have to do it very. And the only reason you’re doing it? Because you want to please this. Person and I think it’s if. This person is is. Very important, very, very important influence. I think it’s very. Legitimate, legitimate answer, even if my boss hear it, I hope we will be fired. 

𝗖𝗵𝗿𝗶𝘀 𝗦𝗶𝗺𝗺𝗮𝗻𝗰𝗲 

Thank you so much for coming on giving so much away as well. One thing which I hope you don’t mind me plugging beyond the do the Bing webinar for anyone watching now or anyone watching in the future. You put an awful lot of effort in the community in the community. Love you. But also you love looking after. Uh, cats and dogs and and if anyone wants to help Anton support the animals that are displaced or have having trouble with, you know the war that’s going on in Ukraine, I don’t want to get into too much politics for obvious reasons because that’s not what the webinars about, but. Really easy, go to OMG dot centre forward slash cats dogs, Anton and you can donate like a cup of coffee essentially to to help Anton help these fantastic people who are doing a great job in a horrible, horrible situation. 

Anton Shulke 

They they were. Doing this job before they were and they were relying on the people’s money as well. But obviously people had slightly more money, less trouble and everything, and and they still whatever happens, they still need to eat and. 

𝗖𝗵𝗿𝗶𝘀 𝗦𝗶𝗺𝗺𝗮𝗻𝗰𝗲 

They still need Oh yeah. So if you can, and if you want. 

Anton Shulke 

And it’s. 

𝗖𝗵𝗿𝗶𝘀 𝗦𝗶𝗺𝗺𝗮𝗻𝗰𝗲 

To here you go, there’s the link. 

Anton Shulke 

Yeah, thanks. Thanks. It would. 

Speaker 

It would be. 

Anton Shulke 

Fantastic. Because at the beginning, at the beginning of everything, it was so easy. People were so open because it was new things, big things and. And and of course. Audience is kind of what this is your audience and everyone donate it after that. OK? You maybe can can come down in half a year or something like you can’t ask people to donate. Every week, even even five $5 for for cup of coffee. But cats and dogs is still want to eat. 

𝗖𝗵𝗿𝗶𝘀 𝗦𝗶𝗺𝗺𝗮𝗻𝗰𝗲 

Agreed. Thank you. 

Anton Shulke 

However, everything is. 

𝗖𝗵𝗿𝗶𝘀 𝗦𝗶𝗺𝗺𝗮𝗻𝗰𝗲 

So much for coming on Anton. Thank you. And in the next webinar, everybody, we’re going to have the person we talked about the most on this webinar. 

Anton Shulke 

Thank you. 

𝗖𝗵𝗿𝗶𝘀 𝗦𝗶𝗺𝗺𝗮𝗻𝗰𝗲 

So Ross Tavendale is is going to be joined by Mindy Gibbons, Klein and myself. We’re going to be talking about thought leadership, which is quite closely connected to the to the the webinar for influence and marketing stuff. I think I think personally the word thought leadership is often misunderstood and everyone thinks they’re one because they spoke at an event once or they were. They they did SEO in 20. 2005 or something like that. But Mindy’s gonna gonna give us the the, the full rundown of really, what one is, how to be one, seriously, and how to, you know, make it work for your agency. Because it’s not just about getting more clients, it might. Be if you’re. A really. Well renowned thought leader in the industry, you’ll find it a lot. Easier to hire people. Uh, you know, you look at some of these people who, uh, who who know a lot about JavaScript SEO. So look at bartosh for exam. Couple that. Whenever he puts a job ad out, I bet you it’s his inbox is full in. Minutes because he he. He he’s a thought leader in the industry and people follow him to to to know what to do. So join us on that on that next webinar and again thank you so much for coming along, Anton. 

Anton Shulke 

I I highly recommend to join arose is absolutely. The only thing the only thing I want to say, he used the same picture five years ago. 

𝗖𝗵𝗿𝗶𝘀 𝗦𝗶𝗺𝗺𝗮𝗻𝗰𝗲 

Don’t tell him. Thank you so much and I’ll speak to you soon.