VO Guy:
… hello, and thanks for coming along to And We Have An Office Dog, the digital agency podcast where we talk to agency owner directors, and learn more about what makes them tick, from the things that make them similar, to the things they’d rather have known sooner. Where they’ve success, and where they’ve learned some hard lessons. All will be revealed with your host, Chris Simmons, the agency coach, and he’ll be talking to a different awesome agency person in each episode, asking them four questions, and seeing where the conversation takes us over the next 25 minutes. Okay, so let us begin over to you, Chris.
Chris Simmance (Host)
Thanks voiceover guy and on the podcast today we’ve got Tom from MCM. How are you?
Tom McMahon (Guest)
Very good. Thanks so much for having me on.
Chris Simmance (Host)
No trouble at all. It’s really nice to speak to you. So first and foremost, as every everyone else who’s who’s been on the season, one of the. Podcast tell us who the heck are. And what the heck does MCM do?
Tom McMahon (Guest)
Who the heck am I? That’s a good. Question probably spend spend quite a bit of time on that, so I’m Tom, I’m the CEO here at MCM and MCM. We’re a full service digital marketing agency. So we look after all aspects of digital advertising. You know we do also do websites. We’ve got a full in-house creative studio. So we look after. Filming creating there isn’t really anything that we don’t do or say. I know that’s quite probably quite a cliche, but in the world of digital, everything you know, influencer activations etcetera, anything that lives in the water, digital, we’ve done it, we’re doing it or we’re planning on doing it.
Chris Simmance (Host)
Nice one and and just before the recording, you, you you highlighted a. A really different version of of the the how I got to leadership story and I think that I think it’s I think it’s really cool because out of 70 almost 70 recordings at this point either someone’s. Bought or or started for themselves or or various manners in in, in, in and in between, and you’ve actually learned how to how to be the leader of your, of your agency over a much longer period of time in AG.
Tom McMahon (Guest)
Indeed, yeah. So I’ve grown up at the agency. So the agency was founded by John My dad 25 years ago. So I would have been. Three years old, I think when it was founded. So it’s been always been that, so you know see as you know the earliest like remember going into you know when it was first founded from home and then the first office and the first employee. To you know now where we’ve got to, where we’ve got a team of almost 30 individuals, we work across huge amount of different industries, different sectors. There’s a huge amount of different things, but yeah, I’ve I’ve grown up with. It is something that is has always been very close to my heart, the agency and and I always knew. I wanted to you. Know be within the agency and drive it. Yeah, but it was also very key. I mean to go out into the big, bad world and, you know, discover a little bit of myself, see what I could bring back and, you know, things and stuff. I could. Yeah, return to. So yeah, that’s the. Story is a bit how does it?
Chris Simmance (Host)
It’s a really like it’s a really cool way of like properly learning how to how, when, when a business is family connected. Obviously there’s there’s love in there. Somewhere, but also like learning it by seeing it in the past when you, you know, before you went out and actually saw other business, some other businesses and like you say, took some, took some of their their wins and and some of their ideas as well as as well as put put things they don’t do so well on the pile you you know you it’s it must be really quite rewarding to. To continue something and and make it grow from from where you took over.
Tom McMahon (Guest)
Exactly. It’s a it’s a passion. It’s a privilege. I, you know, generally love it. And yeah, it was. It was a real calling. There was only so long that I could go. Off and do. Other bits for for us to effort to come back and and and and share. Well, hopefully I some learnings that I picked up from being around different places. But yeah, it’s a real. Real passion or privilege really so. But you’re right, it is. With it being something that, you know, feels quite close to home as well. Yeah, it’s very unique. But yeah, I feel very lucky to be able to, you know, be so involved and and, you know, take us into the next chapter and yeah.
Chris Simmance (Host)
That’s that’s that’s awesome. And and I guess throughout all of those years, you would have seen lots of things change come and go and develop and things like that. And whilst you saw that as a well as a young person, and then you went, went and did your own thing for for a while, I bet you there’s some things that you brought in as a leader when you took over the I’ve kind of set you up for for your now and future success. What what sort of things do you think you’ve you kind of? Brought in the the. That I’m not saying reinvigorated because obviously it wasn’t doing badly before you took over, but what is it that you came in and added Tom to it?
Tom McMahon (Guest)
Yeah. So that’s a really good question. I think the main thing for me is, you know as an individual, what I’ve always been passionate about is creates it from the world of creative and ideas and design. And historically, the agency had always been very focused on, I’d say, the science of digital marketing. So that I, you know, think we’re apps, we’ve always been brilliant at the ends and outs of PPC and SEO and how to build the best possible campaign with the best possible targeting and the best Exp. There and that goes the same for, you know, web design and web development etc. And however the luxury in a few of my roles previously have been at the forefront of creative development and that was something that, you know, when I first joined the agency, we weren’t doing at all. We weren’t making anything. We were using, you know, our clients. For existing ideas et cetera. So one of the first things that I did. When I joined. Was founded Dell Creative Studio. Which should brand new service has run in for a couple of years now. And it’s just gone from strength to strength. It was. It feels like the kind of the piece that the agency was missing. Kind of, yeah. Close the circle a little bit. So now we’re able to take, you know what I genuinely believe is the best in class and builds and understanding of the nuts and bolts and then put some really lovely creates on top of that. And creative strategy ideation, et cetera. So yeah, that’s that’s something I’m really proud of that that creative studio has now. Taken and is now one of our most established services and. Yes, working really well.
Chris Simmance (Host)
That’s really cool because I think I, I mean, first of all, that’s a really big stamp to put on when you when you walk through the door, so to speak. But also you’re right about the the completing the circle bit and I think creative has now. I don’t wanna say overtaken because I don’t think that’s correct, but it’s now become much more important in most digital. Marketing. Yes. From a technical SEO point of view, there are very simple or say very simple, very clear definitions of what good is because it’s either right or not. Whereas with lots of other areas, a lot more creativity is needed, and then you add into that all of the video created, the imagery, creative, anything. From a social point of view and and I think maybe I’m, I’m I I I’d imagine that quite a lot of your new clients come in from the creative angle 1st and then actually take on some of the sciency bits later on. Yeah. Another hundred, yeah, 100% and I.
Tom McMahon (Guest)
Think that criticism is so key and you know. We have the. Luxury of coming into the business fresh and I really saw it. It felt like we’re holding ourselves back. You know, we’ve got all of this brilliant understanding, but we weren’t able to harness the potential without the best creative. And I generally think creative, it doesn’t just need to be like a fancy TikTok or ever that looks cool. It is really that creative strategy and the thinking and I think that. Can go into. SEO. It can go into e-mail marketing that there isn’t. It creates a strategy everywhere. It’s literally just about the understanding of the audience. You know, how do you want your, you know your target audience to think, feel and do it. Just yeah. Things really key and that can run across everything now.
Chris Simmance (Host)
Absolutely agree. It’s a good few years ago since I’ve run an agency, but I used to say to potential clients. You know the good digital marketing great digital marketing is a almost perfect balance of art and science. And I think you’ve more or less said the exact same thing by, you know, completing the circle as it were and and. It it it? It it it is that. And I think that, you know, coming in and adding that because it’s really needed it it’s it’s a, it’s a really good. Win to take to take. One, if you could go back in time a few years though, to when you when you kind of came in to to to, to take over and and you could give yourself a bit of advice that would say that Tom, you’re coming in to to to this business and this is the official bit now they’re not just doing it as as a as a family favour. You’re coming in to to be the boss. And what bit? Of advice, would you have given yourself?
Tom McMahon (Guest)
It’s really interesting. It’s quite again a close to home one, but I would say to enjoy it more and you know stuff and smell the roses. I think you know going into an agency, as you say, you know, desperate to you know, you know, have a real significant impacts and really push things and drive things. And for that sometimes. A lot of us are, you know, heads down 100%. Let’s going. Let’s do this. Let’s deliver that. Let’s achieve. And I think I’d need to consider by myself that. You know, doing this job and the industry that we work in is a privilege and just to stuff and smell the roses a little bit and enjoy it and enjoy those small wins. Enjoy the all of the little bits that you think you know. You’re always racing to see the next bit and what’s next, and that’s something that you know. I think I’ll continue to remind myself of, you know, content all of the bits we get so sucked in, but already I look back at something we did a week ago a year ago. I think that was great, remember. We did that and I, you know, the one thing that I would say to myself and anyone else that’s listening is just, you know, stop and enjoy it in the moment. But, you know, I need to apply that to. Right now to this afternoon, to the small light is.
Chris Simmance (Host)
Big. Exactly. It’s it’s nice to give yourself the feedback now to remind yourself for the future, but you’ve actually gotta gotta do it. And I think it’s you’re gonna get off this, this recording, and you’re gonna have an e-mail or a message or you gonna have someone that is in the next meeting that you booked in. And it’s very hard to, I mean writing it down as to do is really terrible because that’s gonna be really hard to remember and but actually putting things into practise is is quite, quite difficult. And I think I was. I was listening to someone else’s podcast a couple of weeks ago and. They said about. To create like healthy habits, you would. Do one thing that you have to do and couple it with something that you should do. And their example and obviously totally unrelated to this would be like if you’re watching, if you like watching Netflix in an evening, watch Netflix, but also do some stretching and do some do some yoga or something. And obviously that’s not necessarily gonna be the same, but there’s there’s different parts of of that you could do. So every day you look at your calendar first thing in the morning. Or maybe just look back the day before and go what was great about yesterday and what wasn’t so great about yesterday. Before I start looking at today. But it’s kind of like couple a habit with a thing you have to do. Maybe it helps kind of to to to make it possible, but it is. So hard though. Because things are going at 1,000,000 miles an hour and you’ve got how many people in the team.
Tom McMahon (Guest)
Just under 30 at the.
Chris Simmance (Host)
Moment. Yeah. So there’s 30 individuals with 30 individual sets of work needs, requirements, KPIs, layers of management within within that structure as well. You’ve got. You’re obviously not looking at the minutiae of everything, but you do. Have to have a, A a global. You and which flower do you stop and smell? And how often do you remember to do it is. Is quite tough.
Tom McMahon (Guest)
Exactly. It’s always easier to look back in hindsight and think I hear that’s the thing that, you know, was really cool. But you’re right, every you know you were thinking back. Of a few examples. Remember distinctly that as it was happening, you know you got a phone call, you saw an e-mail. Some will mention a problem. To you. Then you then rush to fix, or if something else was burning that you then moved on to, or there was another shiny thing, maybe that you were then chasing onto the next bit. So yeah, it’s something that I could continue on myself, but that’s the one that I would say is the main thing that you know, after you know, a few years of kind of racing through lots of different bits. I want to make sure that you know continue the same pace, of course, but. Just to yeah. Enjoy it.
Chris Simmance (Host)
So, so talking about smelling flowers, then that’s retrospectively smell a flower or two. And so is there something that early doors when you, when you started running the agency, excluding obviously adding that new service line in there, is it something that you did relatively early that? That’s kind of set you up for current and future success.
Tom McMahon (Guest)
So it was something that was just getting going as I joined the agency and that was adopting a new operating system within the business. I’m not sure if we were of it called ayos, which is short for director and yeah, entrepreneurial operating system. So this is something that. Just been bubbling. As I joined and and it’s something that you know, I could see this was really going to help us in kind. Runs through everything that we do. Yeah. So I’m about having a clear vision, communicating clearly to the team. And that was something that myself and the rest of the leadership team were passionate about implementing. And for the rest.
Chris Simmance (Host)
If you’re listening and you’re wondering about EOS, et cetera, and there’s a really good book, I don’t know if it was, maybe something that you guys had looked at MCM called traction, which kind of it’s essentially. A. A how? You can see in the background there. It’s essentially a how to step by step in a way of how to to build these things yourself. And naturally, if I was to gatekeep that, then I’d be I I. As a as an agency coach, quite a lot of the features of that book are are are covered in there and I think you know for the most part you can wait. You can follow a step by step process. It’s really good and doing that that that system for agencies of your size can be fantastic and and and obviously setting things up that like the vision and the values. Early doors and the purpose, that’s that’s a great starting point for any. What else?
Tom McMahon (Guest)
Exactly. Yeah. I couldn’t agree more. I think would really recommend everyone to retraction. There’s even learnings in there that, you know, I’m still very much love for my personal life as well. Like you know, it’s a really good kind of ethos and and way of working and seeing that was something that was bubbling and then we’ve really grabbed hold of that and I just. Cannot, you know, can’t describe how much that’s really helped our business. Help the structure help things ticking forwards helped out with team culture, helped out with everything that’s really been pivotal to our success over the past couple of years, especially and something that I’m very confident will allow us to continue to grow, but yeah, recommend.
Chris Simmance (Host)
It it’s it’s. It’s one of those things that quite a lot of the. The pieces of of of a book like that, or just the actual specific system, are you often like, would look at it and go well, obviously. But do you do it? No. You you’ve gotta do it properly. And quite often you go well. You gotta have a purpose for the business. And the first thing anyone does when they think about that is. They go well, yeah, to. Make some money, you know. But then you got to think backwards a bit more and a bit further away from that and a bit more close to the people. And try and work out what those things really mean, and that’s where. Coaching, mentoring books like that are fantastic for those sorts of things, so conversely, you wouldn’t have wanted to smell a flower that didn’t do so well. So what is it? What? Since you took over that you did and you kind of went. No, that’s not for us. And then, you know, subsequently got rid of or something that you, you know, you. Kind of regret. I mean, it might all have been perfect.
Tom McMahon (Guest)
I definitely wouldn’t say it’s so perfect. I think there’s, yeah, 100% been hiccups so long. I’m trying to think for any bits that stuck out. I would say actually, you know, it’s become a positive now that. You know, at the beginning we’re just defining or, you know, at the beginning of the process with videos and learning from traction, et cetera. We’re just starting to define our values and yeah, you know, all reinvigorate our values, I guess and really kind of set. And So what we stood for and all the passion. And I think it took us. About a year or something to. Get really strict with. Those values and that probably meant that there were things that slipped through in that year. That maybe otherwise wouldn’t have. And those values apply to everything who we work with, what class we work with, who we employ, all of these bits and. Those values now that we’re sticking to them. Are so key and it’s. We referred to those values whenever now if we’re looking to bring on a new client, do they align with our values to they align with our vision? And if so, great, and it’s going to be really fruitful partnership. And if not, then you know, we’ve been very happy in the past year or so to say, look, I don’t think you know this partnership’s gonna work out. We’re actively turning away. The relationships that don’t fully align and I would say yeah, probably the things that didn’t work is that we try to make relationships or whatever fit even though we knew that wasn’t right for our votes.
Chris Simmance (Host)
Yeah, I I think that’s an entirely natural and process, isn’t it? And and yeah, and I think that when you’re when you’re strong enough and clear enough in those values and and how you want to work as a business and the people you want to work with, it’s a it’s quite a nice watershed moment to be able to have those sadly difficult conversations, but. They’re difficult conversations in for, for good reason, and it and it, and it is a big it is a watershed moment in quite a lot of businesses to be able to do that and and. Think that anyone who’s listening to this, who’s kind of going through the process of sort of assigning value or building values, defining your values for your business, do consider longer horizons rather than just just something that connects to you personally or right now or whatever because you. Will you should. Sort of higher fire and bringing clients and keep clients based on what those values are. Naturally things change overtime and you do want to change a few things, but at the same time, what’s core shouldn’t probably change very much at all. So if you are setting up your values, consider a few years into the future.
Tom McMahon (Guest)
Exactly. And it just gives you such a strong foundation. To fall back on and. Be confident around and I recently saw him carry rose from rise at 7:00. Uh, yeah, talking about this around, you know those partnerships and work out which should be right and I think should referenced the three UM, fame, fortune and fun. And the all of the clients you work with need to take two of those boxes. And I thought that’s really nice. You know, I guess at the end of day, it’s quite tricky for always consistently to to to those boxes, but it definitely gives you good a good frame to kind of look at, you know who you should be working with and why you’re working with them. And are you both on the same journey together. We want the best possible thing for our clients and we want to enjoy working together and, you know, transform their business and reach their objectives and and both be on that journey together and kind of long term partners.
Chris Simmance (Host)
Yeah, it’s, it’s funny. You mentioned uh, Carrie’s example there. I was literally about two hours ago on a call, and I was giving similar ish advice, which was I I say fun fit fee or flea, which essentially boiled down to pretty much the same thing there. I hadn’t heard. Hadn’t heard the other version of that, and it is true. You’ve gotta. You’ve gotta work out what the fit is and you gotta work out whether or not. It is suitable for your agency, cause ultimately the people you hire, hopefully who meet your your culture and your values of the business. They have to do do most of the doing and it’s all well and good that it might fit you from a financial point of view, but you’ve also got to consider the human beings that are working on it as well. So if someone if someone is listening this now and they’re and they’re kind of thinking they’re they’re either looking to come into a leadership role in an agency or they’re starting an agency and what one piece of advice do you think you you’d you’d give them to take away?
Tom McMahon (Guest)
Uhm, I would say that. For me, vulnerability especially has been key. Like, you know, be open and communicate when you don’t know something that that you know it is. I can’t stress enough it isn’t a. Sign of weakness. And you know something? I’ve been kind of sort of, you know, being younger and coming into a role, you know, do I need to, you know, for if I’m here of bits in other meetings that I’m. Not going across. You know, go along with it. Even though I don’t understand it, I definitely don’t think I said I think you just constantly be asking questions constantly be learning and just yeah, you know, really. You know, you, you you haven’t got it figured out and I hope I I will have that mindset from when I’m 30-40 a hundred I I was you know, I was watching a podcast the other day. I won’t name names but. A CEO who is about the same age. As me and a. Lot of the questions on there and stuff and. The response is. Very much as if you know that person has figured it out and this is it. This is the key and I I can relate to that. You know, been at similar age and we’ve had similar life experiences and. I just, I think. For me it’s. Always about learning. It’s always about asking questions and and throwing self into it and just be really open when you know you know. If I’m not sure about something and the chances are there’s ten other people in the room that you know aren’t sure as well. And for me that’s that’s key to growth. So always. Just you know you haven’t got it figured out. There’s always going to be more to learn. There’s. Always going to. Be you know more to find out and more room for growth. And I think just surrounding myself by. With the best possible people so that I’m constantly learning and then enabling, you know, yeah, that’s how the team’s gonna grow. That’s how other people can learn. That’s how the agency are gonna develop. So that’s. Yeah, that’s the key thing for me. The vulnerability. But that’s not easy for sure. It’s not. It’s practise.
Chris Simmance (Host)
And it’s really not. And and and. I think that like coming in, being a leader does require does require vulnerability. It’s really hard to show vulnerability if you’re not a real leader. Because you can’t just learn to be a leader, you can learn leadership and their techniques and things, but it doesn’t come naturally quite often to show vulnerability in the right way. If you if you’re, if