V.O. Guy
Hello and thanks for coming along too. And we have an office dog, the digital agency podcast where we talk to agency owner, directors and learn more about what makes them tick from the things that make them similar to the things they’d rather have known sooner where they’ve had success. And where they’ve learned some hard lessons. All will be revealed. With your host, Chris Simmance, the agency coach, and he’ll be talking to a different awesome agency person in each episode, asking them four questions and seeing where the conversation takes us over the next 25 minutes. OK, so let us begin over to you.
Chris Simmance (Host)
Thanks voice over guy. On the podcast today we’ve got the CEO of That Funny Agency, Jared Miller. Hello. Hello. Jared, let’s be honest with the people who are listening right now. How long has it taken us to get this recording started?
Jared Miller (Guest)
Well, the year was 2021. It was a cold. Blistering morning. Ah, but we’re here. Where? We made it. Ah, it wasn’t quite The Handmaid’s Tale, but. It was Harrow.
Chris Simmance (Host)
Yeah, it was hard work and it was definitely all your fault. I’m gonna say definitely nothing to do with me in any way. So it’s just I don’t.
Jared Miller (Guest)
I’ve been telling you, having an American on this podcast.
Jared Miller (Guest)
To just destroy you. Know, yeah.
Chris Simmance (Host)
Oh, for God, let’s just send it. Let’s make this as quick as we. Can then you know what?
Jared Miller (Guest)
I think. We should just end it now. I think it.
Chris Simmance (Host)
Great. Yeah, it was. It was brilliant. And thanks very much for coming.
Jared Miller (Guest)
On it was a pleasure. I hope everyone learned a lot and you know, we’ll see you on the flip.
Chris Simmance (Host)
Side so Jared, first of all. Tell us about the agency. That funny agency. I’m guessing it’s because of the humour that you take. Or do you? Just laugh at clients.
Jared Miller (Guest)
Well, we, we we we really looking for you know. We didn’t. Do this on purpose. Let me let. Me start off that way. The agency came about because my partner Greg and I, I’ve been spitballing a few ideas a few years back about starting an agency and he said, you know, you you do all these comedy videos. Parenthetically speaking, I used to do comedy videos and. He said we could do that for clients and I was like, what? Like that funny. Agency that does stuff because. That’s a great name. That you know and it became. Sort of like that, this joke. Of, like, uh, who was that? Uh, that funny agency that can do work for us. That funny agency? Yeah. Who are they again? Yeah. That party agency so it. Became a little bit about about you. Know you know who’s on first kind of situation. But we also just kind of saw it as. We do things a little bit. Differently, right? We try to. Approach things as my creative director or my and now she’s called my VP Creative. We keep promoting people I don’t even know what they’re called. Uh, not everything has to be funny, but everything is like human, so we really come about it from our human interaction, and invariably things are either funny or they give. You an epiphany. Of course, my team won’t let me use the funny versus epit funny. They think it’s horrible. Like yeah, there.
Chris Simmance (Host)
Hmm. Yeah, leave the puns to leave the puns to to to the written word. Suppose you know it doesn’t. Doesn’t come off as well verbally.
Jared Miller (Guest)
Yeah, they, they, they, they go. You really. Need to take the dad joke thing down a few notches?
Chris Simmance (Host)
Yeah. Yeah, so. So how long has? The agency been going.
Jared Miller (Guest)
Oh, so we started during COVID.
Chris Simmance (Host)
Well done.
Jared Miller (Guest)
Lasted till the recession. Uh, we’re we’re. Coming up on a year and a. Half but experience wise, we’ve all. Been in the industry for, you know, dozens of.
Chris Simmance (Host)
Years and and what? What? What does the agency sort of specialise in in particular?
Jared Miller (Guest)
You know, ******* our podcast hosts is probably the number one thing that we do.
Chris Simmance (Host)
And you’re really good at it. You’re intern over.
Jared Miller (Guest)
Uh, we are as we like to. Say we’re a data-driven creative agency. We we like to think of creative collaboration in an egalitarian mindset with regards to we like to say relationship building. So we did that by changing the agency gain. We think about things from. A truly ROI point of view. Anything that we do should be moving the needle should be we can drop, we can measure, and we don’t make voyeuristic decisions. We let the data drive the conversation, but also we find out what your users need, what your users want. We we see ego as. Being one of the largest deterrents for true growth. And what you may think may work. May not, but if you want to try it, let’s try it. But as I like to tell. My team. Ill fast. And how hard?
Chris Simmance (Host)
Yeah. Yeah, it’s it’s a good, good way of thinking as long as that failing hard is definitely like with a parachute, and you don’t want to fail too hard and lose all. The clients in one go.
Jared Miller (Guest)
It’s not about, it’s not. About Bruce Willis movie called Fail Hard, which lasts like 30 seconds. Where? You basically don’t when he walks.
Chris Simmance (Host)
Yes, yes. Through the door. We knew you were coming. We read the. Script in advance. So what do you think’s been one of the kind of the biggest successes beyond surviving a financial apocalypse or two?
Jared Miller (Guest)
Rotting working with the team that has the same mindset we came about thinking of things in a very non traditional way family first. Then team, then clients, then company. Completely bonkers. Every place I’ve ever worked before was company verse. The way we think of it this way is I looked for people who were working from home. Who had kids? Who had bobble things going on in their life. Who basically said look. Why don’t you contract me? I’ll work some hours doing explain. Other people will say I can come on, but I have to pick up my kids. At 3:00, o’clock great. We work through. That because I want people that are completely feel their lives, their personal lives are respected 100%. I don’t care about time off. I don’t care about when. When you know, as long as you are. There, when it’s needed and. You and your work. We will get. Great work because. They will then. Take care of their team members. If your team member says I have an emergency. Someone in my family knock on wood just passed away. I have to go. Deal with this the rest of the team being multi hyphenates themselves know how to join in. I also asked for a lot of team members to be comedians, artists, musicians. How people of the. Arts so they can think in a. Different way and thinking more in a collaborative way. If you have improv training it, it is critical. Do you understand what yes, and does to the group dynamic. So the biggest success we’ve had is not. Only starting with people. Uh, my dog is snoring by me. If you hear her so with him, she is the worst. Team member on this team.
Chris Simmance (Host)
Does not. No, it’s not even remotely funny. Yeah, doesn’t get it.
Jared Miller (Guest)
Got it. Adorable. Adorable. She gets away with it? Yes, and mentality is we brought people in. That understand that. But then we’ve also been attracting people who feel that same way. And invariably what that does is when you build a team that really feels strongly committed to each other, we like to say, pass the baton in the best way possible. Like in America, the four by 4 by 100 relay. When you pass the baton. Or are you passing the baton as best as possible so that the other person is so easy for them to get it? But when you have that in place, clients just go whoa. This team, this team, is devoted to me. And if the team and the clients are there, then the company will be there. It’s very field of trades without.
Chris Simmance (Host)
Ohh well, I mean, I’m not not interested in. That’s the only part of it that I. That I really know. He was just. Yeah. I mean, you gotta pay the staff first so he can maybe when you’re in a few few years time. So if you if you went back in time to, you know, when you and your co-founder were talking about starting the agency and ****, into existence, an older version of you appears and says, I’ve got one piece of advice for you, Jared, you’re not gonna listen. To it, but one piece of advice. What piece of advice would you give?
Jared Miller (Guest)
Yourself. Listen more. Listen more. I would not have started it at a different time. I think we started it and I’ll explain why I would have listened more to everyone else around me. Well, I I was a sponge and I gleaned as much information as I could. I would have. Done even more, I would have said I would. Pins my uh CEOs. Ah, in a corner and and and and and and tied them up, trapped them, held them hostage and asked them everything they possibly knew. And then and married, we probably did the opposite, because I had no respect them. No, I. Learn. You know what? I could. I and I did. I I I tried to ask as many questions, but I don’t think I asked even as many. There isn’t just no way to. Prepare for this kind of role. There was no way I I. You just learn things. And what they say is this is the quickest way to an MBA. Thank you. I might have heard that on on another one. Of your broadcast. Yeah, it it really is.
Chris Simmance (Host)
You listen. You’re my one. Listen.
Jared Miller (Guest)
Yeah, yeah. Don’t you see me comment together?
Chris Simmance (Host)
That’s the only one.
Jared Miller (Guest)
Yeah, yeah. Why do you can? I don’t. Want to bring on more Americans? Oh, because they’re technical. Typical. Right.
Chris Simmance (Host)
So, listen, listen. Listen more was the point that you were making whilst I interrupt, which is great. Not ironic whatsoever.
Jared Miller (Guest)
I think I’m literally saying that because. The team will be listening to this. Afterward, and they’re going to say, Jared, did you? Did you tell that you’re listening now?
Chris Simmance (Host)
And and and and. How do you so that I I think I know what what that what you mean by that because obviously it means something slightly different to everyone the the the learning bit obviously when you start a digital agency it’s it’s that Donald Rumsfeld style, there’s an unknown unknown there and you don’t you you know what? You think you want? You just don’t know what you don’t know until it till it hits you in the in the face and says you should listen to this because and you. I didn’t even know I should have been listening to that. So how? How have you learned to listen more? Is it simply that people have kind of told you?
Jared Miller (Guest)
Well, I would say I I’ve been, you know, studying a little bit of cynic. And Chris Voss and. And a couple of other leadership. Minds. And I’ve been listening for the no. Especially when it comes to talking to clients, finding out what they don’t want and hearing what is not. But they don’t want personal helps with negotiations. But it. It really changes the dynamic it makes. You and when you repeat it. Back to them. So this is not going. To be something. You’re focused on right now. We don’t have to really kind of put this in there. And even though in the back of my mind I’m thinking how could they forget paid marketing? Right. I’m not gonna push it. I’m gonna say. Understood we’re focusing. The website we’re focusing on the build. We’re focusing on organic growth. We’re focusing on SEO. I’m listening to you and I’m knowing that paid marketing is something, don’t. Keep pushing on them. You know, why aren’t you doing SEM? That’s part of SEO. No, just listen. And if you can find out the nose. And you can then variably get to the S and find out what truly is the pain that they have, and if you can dig as deep as possible, it’ll probably hurt them, but that’s OK, you just keep taking more then yeah, and find out.
Chris Simmance (Host)
You know, and that and the good thing is framing in that sort of scenario. You know, if you know that you’re doing your digging and then you do your. You do your framing in a in a good way in advance and and you build some build some good standing with the client or the the member of the team or whoever it is you’re dealing with. You know you can deal with them a lot better. So what’s one thing that you you you did when you started out because it’s a short period of time we’re talking about here? What’s one thing that you did that you when you started out that you kind of you went ohh no, we’re not doing that anymore and and kind of put. A lid on it straight away.
Jared Miller (Guest)
I would say we. Still are doing it. Which was I forced my partner to purchase extremely high end, sophisticated software that I was used to. Using at a large. Agency instead of figuring out a a simpler. Solution or a newer technology that was out. There, that could have saved. And I don’t necessarily want to throw out names of the behemoths that are out there for CLM that cost a fortune and maybe having some trouble in the news these days, with the CEO stepping down. I’m not mentioning who they are. I’m not going to.
Chris Simmance (Host)
Can’t, can’t. Yeah.
Jared Miller (Guest)
Oversee shift right? We’re just doing talk about sales. So when we’re talking about CMS that maybe I’m not mentioning an ink, don’t do not make me say to me.
Chris Simmance (Host)
I will not force you.
Jared Miller (Guest)
So thank you. Thank you. Thank you. I appreciate that. That, that that’s it’s good camaraderie and that I feel like we’re we’re one with the force. Yeah, it was expensive. It was expensive to start. Uh, great product. Actually, I felt I still feel it’s the right one for us, although I’ve, I’ve now been sort of hearing different technologies that are that are filling in gaps, but it it was just an over. It was an overhead expense especially being a remote agency. If I didn’t mention that 100% fully remote agency supposed to have no overhead. All of a sudden, we’ve got bills that. Were going to fall behind them. And why? Why would I put a spine 8 ball just to begin with? So that was, I would say, do not buy software until you know you need.
Chris Simmance (Host)
Yeah, I I am. I call it looking sort of you buy the shiny things. Uh, so you’ve been working at a big agency or you’ve seen what other agencies are talking about on Twitter or LinkedIn or whatever. And the next thing you know, you’ve got a CR M that has 999 features you don’t touch or of those 999 features, you need 2, but you need to pay for special integrations. Or or whatever. Then there’s all of the connectors and all of those sorts of things, all before you even start. You might just need to flip in spreadsheet to start off with. You just need a spreadsheet and as soon as you get to the point where you go right, this spreadsheet is how we run the business. Then you can go, oh, we’re going to use monday.com or we’re going to use click up. We’re going to use. Asana or something like that. You know, if you want to get really crazy, you can use coda, which I don’t know what you’d have to be a certain kind of masochist to wanna use coda, but it is pretty bloody good. But yeah, don’t go after the shiny things straight away, because that’s that’s bills that you don’t need to pay and it’s complexities that you don’t need and they running agencies complex enough. If, like you say, it’s fully remote and you’re focusing on the people bit, first imagine with the complexities of that someone calls you and says, hey, I need the day I’m taking my kid to something or whatever else you go. Sure, sure. No worries. Then you’ve got to click 18 buttons on the CRM just to make one task be reassigned to someone else. It’s just crazy.
Jared Miller (Guest)
You have to find somebody also who is an adept. At that system, right, because you have to.
Chris Simmance (Host)
Oh yeah.
Jared Miller (Guest)
Have special training. To you know, use it. And you’re like, I didn’t realise this is an F1 Air Force, you know, like and you know, I’d have some Top Gun Maverick in there and then you know. And I’ll plug Top Gun. Maverick now on digital. Anyway, so yeah.
Chris Simmance (Host)
Yeah, some sort of.
Chris Simmance (Host)
Yeah, I can’t. I I don’t think they listen. I think like I said, you’re the only listener. So is there something conversely to that that you you you think that you did really well at the outset and you’ve stuck to in a big way?
Jared Miller (Guest)
I I think what we did was focused as we kind of talked before on the ROI cycle by having all three. Obviously there’s more divisions, but we we have 4 divisions strategy, marketing, development and creative. We have fancy names for them, but that’s what they are in. In essence, by focusing on the teams, delivering to each other in that baton. Methodology we were able to have. Case studies quickly. Actually, I I mentioned this report agency started. On a whim. That this is I was let go from a large software development company who basically said they wanted them to to eliminate the entire retail division. I was last one in first one out and it was like the entire retail image during COVID. Oh wow. Because no one. ‘s going to be buying online, OK? It’s like the entire division we were, we were, I think they needed to make their EBITDA look good and that was fine. But when they left, they had a client ready to go. I was there three months and out of sale $300,000 now ready to go. Client says to me she. Says, well, what are we? Supposed to do now and I go. Just can you? Just hold on for one month, just one.
Chris Simmance (Host)
Tiny, tiny little.
Jared Miller (Guest)
Month. I don’t want you to do anything. I’ll. I’ll. Be right back. Not 30 minutes after that call, I swear to God, Greg, my partner calls me up. And he goes, hey, I’m thinking.
Jared Miller (Guest)
Where I live and I go, hey, it’s starting to start that buddy agency, he. Goes it’s time. It’s time we started with a client. We were able to build an agency with a very substantial contract. And in a years time.
Chris Simmance (Host)
It’s a good launchpad.
Jared Miller (Guest)
It was. It was I. Mean look, I wish everyone could have that. To start, but we were able to show the return show the growth through marketing through a CRO through anything we could find to change their website for the better, bring in with their marketing and being for, for hiring. All of these things show growth. And we were able to make a case study, so invariably the best thing we did to start was stick to our guns and focus on that. It’s like.
Chris Simmance (Host)
Yeah, and and and and it like it’s so hard when you’re when you’re starting a new agency. And I’ve I’ve mentioned this a few times with with and a few of the the podcast guests have done. Actually, it’s really hard to to stick to your guns because you need the revenue in order to keep going. If you don’t stick to your guns, you may lose the revenue. And lose the business, but not sticking to your guns means that you essentially prolong that agony because you then continue to say yes to everything else. It’s five years down the line. You hate yourself, everyone hates you. You’ve got no money, whereas. Stick to your guns for 6 to 12 months and the and and it sticks.
Jared Miller (Guest)
I right now the the the other listeners of your podcast will be. The the the. TFA, Avengers, and I’ll explain why we call TFA Avengers in. Just a minute. But they they’re right now. Screaming. Oh my. God tell them that you fired our second client.
Chris Simmance (Host)
Do it. Tell us now.
Jared Miller (Guest)
We did. So we we had to fire our second client because there it was. It was a loose. We were never going to make money. They were never willing to. To to open up and we’re not talking about a. A cheap client. This is somebody. Who made millions of dollars a year in a luxury buying goods Shopify experience? And they were making they they could afford it. They needed to put money into the marketing. They were just unwilling to let, you know, priming the well and saying even $10,000 a month was hard to get to, even just to say, listen, you’re gonna get 3X. It’s it’s it just with simple changes on Shopify, we can show you can get 3. Tax it’s going to. Pay you back. No, and we we could not win that argument no matter what we tried. So we we ended the relationship.
Chris Simmance (Host)
So yeah, sticking to guns is one thing, but actually, like living by that, proving it by getting rid of our client is, is and. And The thing is, an unhealthy relationship, no matter what the relationship, is unhealthy. So it’s always better to to sort of say. Sorry, so long. Thanks for all the fish and goodbye and and leave it there and the the the the problem that you’ve got at that point early doors if it’s your second client is. You know that these trousers turned brown and and, you know, do you have to go out on, you know, and say yes to to more stuff? Thankfully, you stuck to your guns and you. You know you. You, you, you, you, you carried on as you meant to as you started. But if you were to if if someone was to come and knock on your metaphorical agency door. Since there isn’t a real agency door right now, well, I mean they. Could have probably, right?
Jared Miller (Guest)
My wife. You know.
Chris Simmance (Host)
Yeah, OK. If she was to knock on the door and say, hey, look, I’m going to start competing agency against you, honey. Yeah. What? What, what? One piece of advice would you give her and and obviously not not don’t do it.
Jared Miller (Guest)
This is something I’ve been kind of talking about lately, Mary. The why take the how. Know your mission, know your mission. Know exactly what you are, how to do. Yes, that will evolve. But know it from the. Beginning. Understand that you are. Mission and the way you approach is yours and. That has to. Stay within yourself. Your your idealism, your the way you. Spouse that your your. Uh, your niche? Followers or your your team of two or whomever, then needs to hear that. Keep that. Why? But but Deeks, the how. Because the how is going to change. Yeah, you’re gonna. Figure out different ways to, for example, our model being in our our business model. Had to change. And had to. Came up with a with a. A great system. Of story points. Because I we do have a a tip agile. Philosophy which is taking. Agile development. But actually incorporating into both marketing and creative tasks, where every task is given a story point. I don’t know if it’s going to one story point takes one hour or five hours, but the clients never going to get billed. By the hour. They’re billed by point, right? It’s on us to do it. Well, it’s also on. Us if we don’t do it well. But you will. Get that done because you bought the task. Now I would say to anyone starting.
Chris Simmance (Host)
Does it?
Jared Miller (Guest)
Find the model that works, but also listen to clients, interview clients. Do your stakeholder interviews before you start an agency. Why don’t you interview some of your former clients and say if you had an ideal agency? What would? What would they be like? We have a we, we love nonprofits. We’re nonprofits. 20% of our business must be with nonprofits, and it’s it’s almost in a if. We had a. Charter it would be in the chart. And we’re not asking our. Nonprofit partners. Uh. What? What do you like about us or what don’t you like? Be honest. What do you want in the agency? Please. We’ll put that out as content because it’s and again, it’s going to be a base to future agencies that work with nonprofits to understand specifically how to work with them, right? They don’t. They’re not none. They don’t not have money, they have money.
Chris Simmance (Host)
They just don’t. They just don’t have any of the end. Yeah. No, but no.
Jared Miller (Guest)
They they have nothing at the. End there’s a problem. They’re they’re they’re just. But they’re trying to be precise. So everything you do for them should move the needle. You have to be cognizant of that. So as as you start an agency, know your audience. And indeed, the hell. Remember Remember the Y.
Chris Simmance (Host)
So. So I mean that’s pretty decent advice to end the podcast on, Marry, Marry the. Why date the how love it. Well, thank you. Very much for for for being an annoying American on my podcast.
Jared Miller (Guest)
Chris I if you. Ever need me to come back and just seriously annoy everyone again? This is what I do.
Chris Simmance (Host)
It’s it’s just like I’m going to be, I’m going to be asking you to join webinars and all sorts of things. I want to disenfranchise an entire planet. That, that they just don’t call it.
Jared Miller (Guest)
Brand new agency, that’s all. That’s all that matters. Thank you so.
Chris Simmance (Host)
Much thank you, thank you. And on our next podcast, we have a different agency, different agency leader probably from Europe. Thanks very much for listening.