Chris Simmance:
Thanks voiceover guy. I’m really, really pleased to have Reese Wynn on the podcast day. I’ve pulled him all the way from his Twitch streaming and his website development. How are you doing Reese?
Rhys Wynne:
I’m doing well, how are you doing?
Chris Simmance:
Not too bad, thank you, not too bad. How is Twitch going these days? Because I don’t have the app anymore, but I’m still subscribed to you.
Rhys Wynne:
Oh, I appreciate the subscription. It’s going okay. I mean, it’s kind of like the problem has been like the world. Well, I say a problem. It’s not a problem in the slightest. The world has opened up so there’s less people watching but You
Chris Simmance:
Fair enough. There’s
Rhys Wynne:
know
Chris Simmance:
people
Rhys Wynne:
the
Chris Simmance:
living
Rhys Wynne:
grand
Chris Simmance:
lives
Rhys Wynne:
scheme of
Chris Simmance:
now.
Rhys Wynne:
things.
Chris Simmance:
Oh my God.
Rhys Wynne:
Yeah, people have lives now. So it has it’s been a little bit quiet, including myself, you know, obviously, so I
Chris Simmance:
Yeah.
Rhys Wynne:
haven’t been available, but it’s conversely have like kind of like a nice effect in the all these friendships that I’ve built up with people. outside of, you know, just basically playing video games
Chris Simmance:
That’s awesome.
Rhys Wynne:
on the internet. Some of us have met up in real life now, so it’s happened a couple of times already, so that’s been
Chris Simmance:
So, so
Rhys Wynne:
nice.
Chris Simmance:
for those, for those who are listening to this and have never met Reese, just to give you, to set the scene, Reese is an exceptional WordPress and PHP developer. He’s brilliant at what he does, but he’s very much, I’m looking at a screen watching this, you are listening to this. I can see all of the, the cultural tropes of video game love in the background there. So you
Rhys Wynne:
Yeah.
Chris Simmance:
really do lean in heavily to that developer archetype.
Rhys Wynne:
Oh, exactly. Yeah, it’s it is I am a developer and I have literally so much Video game memorabilia. Although, you know, I’m not I don’t really watch many films, but probably because I don’t really have time but there is There is so much there from the common all 64 The very first game I owned until like playstation and all sorts over there. So Yeah
Chris Simmance:
So for the uninitiated who haven’t had the pleasure of meeting you, Rhys, can you give us all a rundown of who you are, what you do and how did you get to where you are now?
Rhys Wynne:
Okay, hello everybody, my name is Reese. I run, I’m a freelancer and I go by the name of Dween, D-W-I-N, Reese, R-H-Y-S, Welsh way. And I have a 13, no, over. 15 years in commercial WordPress development, doing WordPress the right way. Previously was an SEO in a small agency. So I got the SEO job as well. I ended, you know, did a small work for a marketing agency for a wee while, moved to another marketing agency, became lead developer and four years ago went freelance and decided to… go out on my own. Since then, I have been working with agencies, and not just agencies, but
Chris Simmance:
Mm-mm.
Rhys Wynne:
other companies, both SEO agencies and development agencies, providing WordPress support, maintenance. Trading is a new one now. And just generally building some of the more unusual things with WordPress.
Chris Simmance:
Mm.
Rhys Wynne:
But making sure that it’s done in the right way so they’re safe secure SEO friendly basically
Chris Simmance:
Nice. And, and what, what was it, there’s quite a lot of people who, who work in agencies now who are kind of thinking about, you know, future and future state of their careers and stuff, what was it that kind of, um, uh, was the, the thing that gave you the push to go into freelance and, and doing it out for, doing it for yourself.
Rhys Wynne:
It there was almost like a if not now when
Chris Simmance:
Nice
Rhys Wynne:
kind
Chris Simmance:
bet.
Rhys Wynne:
of thing with with. Um, it’s always been something that I wanted to do at some point. Uh, There was eight points where they was like, right, okay, nothing is really going to change
Chris Simmance:
Hmm.
Rhys Wynne:
or where I previously was. Let’s give it a try. And it was like two, there was like two paths. It was either buy a flat or use the money, you know, because I’ve
Chris Simmance:
Just
Rhys Wynne:
built
Chris Simmance:
let
Rhys Wynne:
up
Chris Simmance:
yourself
Rhys Wynne:
a little bit of
Chris Simmance:
go,
Rhys Wynne:
money
Chris Simmance:
yeah.
Rhys Wynne:
or go freelance. And it was a conversation. It was, I saw a flat in Manchester where I used to live.
Chris Simmance:
Mm.
Rhys Wynne:
I just was like, you know, I wasn’t sold on it.
Chris Simmance:
Yeah.
Rhys Wynne:
And it was just keep on going through this or, and I basically ran my brother and he said, you’ve always wanted to go out on your own and
Chris Simmance:
Yeah.
Rhys Wynne:
you know, try and have a little bit more freedom to do what you want to do. You’re not gonna, you’ve got no mortgage, you’ve got no kids, you’ve got
Chris Simmance:
Yeah.
Rhys Wynne:
no family. Now is the time to do
Chris Simmance:
Get
Rhys Wynne:
it.
Chris Simmance:
on
Rhys Wynne:
You
Chris Simmance:
with
Rhys Wynne:
can
Chris Simmance:
it.
Rhys Wynne:
live
Chris Simmance:
Yeah.
Rhys Wynne:
for 300 pound a month, you know,
Chris Simmance:
That’s awesome.
Rhys Wynne:
so.
Chris Simmance:
Yeah.
Rhys Wynne:
It was like that was the push that kind of was like, okay, let’s
Chris Simmance:
And
Rhys Wynne:
go.
Chris Simmance:
I think the skill set that you have lends itself to that quite a lot because the highest skilled end of the spectrum in your space either run full web development businesses as in
Rhys Wynne:
Yeah.
Chris Simmance:
like an agency of their own, or they are in high demand and you’re often in high demand. Every time I contact you, you’re like, yep, you’ve got another six months to add onto that pipeline
Rhys Wynne:
Yeah.
Chris Simmance:
there. But you know, the, any agency who’s got like very clear development needs for WordPress stuff, like you’d be hard pressed to find someone that actually knows it that well, that is an employed member of staff. And I mean that in the nicest way, anyone who’s employed listening to this.
Rhys Wynne:
Yeah, and even if they were, it can be just having a second pair of eyes
Chris Simmance:
Yeah.
Rhys Wynne:
on something, and particularly somebody who is completely disconnected with the agency. Some of the times, you know, like I’ve come into agencies just to be like, I don’t know the politics behind it. So because there’s, you know, like,
Chris Simmance:
Yeah.
Rhys Wynne:
you know, people involved. I’m just going to give you my opinion as a WordPress developer and third party. And I can kind of say, right, OK, well, this is the way in which
Chris Simmance:
Mm-mm.
Rhys Wynne:
I would do it. Obviously, there is obviously can be a bit of pushback occasionally
Chris Simmance:
Yeah.
Rhys Wynne:
because there are irons in the fire and everything. But sometimes just having somebody that, even if they turn out to be really, really good developers because it’s both the positive and the negative because sometimes
Chris Simmance:
Yeah.
Rhys Wynne:
it can be a. Right, OK, well, we can do this, but we can’t because of this kind of
Chris Simmance:
Yeah,
Rhys Wynne:
thing. So
Chris Simmance:
absolutely.
Rhys Wynne:
there are elements of that.
Chris Simmance:
That guy’s rude, keeps interrupting
Rhys Wynne:
Hehehe
Chris Simmance:
me. Every recording is an interruption.
Rhys Wynne:
Hahaha
Chris Simmance:
And speaking of politics, when you go into these agencies, bring your best politician out, just because a lot of agencies are listening to this right now. What do you love the most about working with agencies?
Rhys Wynne:
Often
Chris Simmance:
Oh,
Rhys Wynne:
thinking about
Chris Simmance:
oh no!
Rhys Wynne:
it. I was thinking about this. So, often there is a lot of satisfaction and from a job perspective you almost become a bit of a… generally people will only message you when things are going wrong or they
Chris Simmance:
Bye.
Rhys Wynne:
need something. You know, it’s one of those things. Nobody ever really messaged you to see how you’re doing everything. But yeah, so you can be a bit of a firefighter and you can be a bit of a, right, okay, well if he’s come in… At this point when
Chris Simmance:
Thank you.
Rhys Wynne:
things were falling apart and the previous developers run off to Bali and everything’s all over the place, this person’s come in and sorted it all out. We appreciate it. Thank you very much.
Chris Simmance:
Mm.
Rhys Wynne:
That’s usually a start of a lot of relationships for me.
Chris Simmance:
Yeah.
Rhys Wynne:
Um, it and it can kind of build up from that and also people I’ll you know people like yourself and everything will always recommend me to other people and everything and i’ll go this is the person you need to speak to
Chris Simmance:
Mm.
Rhys Wynne:
and You know referrals are a big thing and everything and because I trade on my name a lot, you know, i’m not a Well,
Chris Simmance:
lit quite literally.
Rhys Wynne:
literally, yeah, it literally is I am a reese. Um
Chris Simmance:
Yes. Is it it? Not me.
Rhys Wynne:
But yeah, because the company is me,
Chris Simmance:
Yeah.
Rhys Wynne:
I have to trade on my name. And also because of that, it is nice when agencies are beginning to kind of go, such and such from this agency, who is generally like, often usually the MD and everything’s just like, this is personally speak to. And
Chris Simmance:
Yeah.
Rhys Wynne:
that kind of helps even just the start of the, the conversation. I had one a few weeks ago where, somebody on a social media platform, I’m not gonna say who, and I’m not gonna say the social media platform said, if Reese is available, hire him and close the thread.
Chris Simmance:
No.
Rhys Wynne:
Which was just like, oh, that’s an ego boost.
Chris Simmance:
Yes.
Rhys Wynne:
So there is a little bit of that. And you do come in, then your opinion gets respected and everything and that. really helps and obviously repeat work, repeat money,
Chris Simmance:
Hmm.
Rhys Wynne:
it’s all good
Chris Simmance:
So,
Rhys Wynne:
and everything.
Chris Simmance:
so look at you, you work with agencies quite a bit, but you also have private clients, both, you know, all shapes and sizes and things like
Rhys Wynne:
Yeah.
Chris Simmance:
that. What’s the considering, you know, typical stakeholders and the work that
Rhys Wynne:
Yeah.
Chris Simmance:
you’d normally do that’s not to put it down or anything. Let’s say you’re building just websites, simple,
Rhys Wynne:
Yeah.
Chris Simmance:
normal websites, agency wants one, private client wants one. What are the differences? from that perspective, what do you often find that like the key areas there?
Rhys Wynne:
Um, the differences is that often the agencies, uh, have a little bit more resource, um, so for example, they will have a designer,
Chris Simmance:
Yep.
Rhys Wynne:
you know, they will, they will have a designer on sketch. Cause that’s the one thing I don’t do. I I’m a programmer. I’m not a designer. Um, and they’re two different skillsets. So, so sometimes me just sitting on with a designer, with a content creator
Chris Simmance:
Mm.
Rhys Wynne:
to find out what they want and how they expect things to work. Um. You often, I don’t want to say there’s less risk, but sometimes it can be editing from the agency wants the brand new website to work at WordPress. Or it’s a, we’ve got this client. We’re producing this thing that we’re going to send off to all the newspapers, you know, and try and build links and,
Chris Simmance:
Mm.
Rhys Wynne:
you know, from, from an SEO. It could be both of those things.
Chris Simmance:
Yeah.
Rhys Wynne:
Um, so there is, there is a little bit less work,
Chris Simmance:
Hmm.
Rhys Wynne:
um, working with an agency because. I don’t have to find a designer. I don’t have to find content creators, particularly for end clients. I don’t have to find, well, I don’t even say I don’t have to find because I’m the one who does it. I don’t have to train them. And there’s a little bit more assumed, rightly or wrongly, there’s a little bit more inbuilt
Chris Simmance:
Yeah.
Rhys Wynne:
and assumed knowledge because it’s not my first rodeo,
Chris Simmance:
And I guess
Rhys Wynne:
it’s-
Chris Simmance:
you don’t have to tease so much out of the brief as well, because it will go through the agency from the client before it gets to you as well. So I guess quite a lot
Rhys Wynne:
Correct.
Chris Simmance:
of questions you typically answer from a private client versus an agency, a different type
Rhys Wynne:
Yeah.
Chris Simmance:
of the same question.
Rhys Wynne:
It things can kind of, they can move quickly, but it could also be slowly. They move quickly in the fact is there’s a brief literally within a few days or sometimes even the same day.
Chris Simmance:
Mm.
Rhys Wynne:
I’ve got a quote out for that project. Whereas for a design developer, there’s a sorry, for a private client, it can be a bit slower in terms of Right, okay, can we arrange a call so that we can sit down and go over it? Sometimes, you know, some clients will literally just go, how much is it to do this? You
Chris Simmance:
Yeah.
Rhys Wynne:
know, from an agency standpoint, it’ll just be how much can it be to do this thing that
Chris Simmance:
Hmm.
Rhys Wynne:
we’re having a problem with.
Chris Simmance:
And you’ve worked with over the last good few years now, both in agencies and then quite with quite a lot of very different agencies as well, depending on, you know, some are paid agencies, some are SEO agencies, et cetera,
Rhys Wynne:
Yeah.
Chris Simmance:
so on. What, what in your experience of working with and basically hearing from them all the time, because you’re quite well known in the sector,
Rhys Wynne:
Yeah.
Chris Simmance:
what was your, what in your experience kind of distinguishes the best from the rest, the ones that got that, that something extra.
Rhys Wynne:
Um Good question.
Chris Simmance:
It is, it is. I can’t thank
Rhys Wynne:
It is
Chris Simmance:
you
Rhys Wynne:
a
Chris Simmance:
very
Rhys Wynne:
great
Chris Simmance:
much.
Rhys Wynne:
question.
Chris Simmance:
That’s my ego boost for the day done.
Rhys Wynne:
I tend to find a little bit of… So from my perspective, because this is the way of thing, because not always the best agencies are
Chris Simmance:
Mm-hmm.
Rhys Wynne:
the ones that are the best to work with. So from my perspective, I’m
Chris Simmance:
Best
Rhys Wynne:
going to answer
Chris Simmance:
is a
Rhys Wynne:
it
Chris Simmance:
subjective
Rhys Wynne:
from,
Chris Simmance:
term in these
Rhys Wynne:
yes.
Chris Simmance:
senses, to be
Rhys Wynne:
So
Chris Simmance:
perfectly honest.
Rhys Wynne:
the ones that I find the best to work with are the ones that are the easiest to work with.
Chris Simmance:
Mm-hmm.
Rhys Wynne:
So for example, transparency,
Chris Simmance:
Yep.
Rhys Wynne:
I know exactly, they will go, look, okay, because not everything, things. go wrong and they give it, right, OK, we’re still waiting from this from the content table. So this is from the developer team, your designer table, or even developer team. I’m still, we’re having people being explaining and just going, right, OK, well, this is, transparency is a big one.
Chris Simmance:
Mm-hmm.
Rhys Wynne:
Not having to chase, kind of, I’m not having to assume.
Chris Simmance:
Yeah.
Rhys Wynne:
I think the worst things I’ve ever had is when an agency will. say to me, can we have you for three months down the line? And I go, great, okay, but I need this, and this by then. And then they go quiet.
Chris Simmance:
Yeah.
Rhys Wynne:
And then three months down the line, they come and say, okay, we’re ready to go now. And it’s like,
Chris Simmance:
Yeah,
Rhys Wynne:
well, no,
Chris Simmance:
well I’m
Rhys Wynne:
because
Chris Simmance:
not now, yeah.
Rhys Wynne:
yeah, cause I’m not, you know, it can be a bit frustrating that because that obviously has an impact on our relationship going forward. And you
Chris Simmance:
Yeah.
Rhys Wynne:
know, when things.
Chris Simmance:
And I think, you know, some of the best agencies, yes, the transparency should be there across the board anyway, which,
Rhys Wynne:
Mm.
Chris Simmance:
which you’d hope for. But I think that if you’re listening agency people, which you should be, because this is a world famous podcast, and
Rhys Wynne:
Hahaha
Chris Simmance:
if you are listening, and you’re working with any external outsourced provider of anything, they are a human being. And therefore they’ve got calendars of their own. And they’ve also
Rhys Wynne:
Yeah.
Chris Simmance:
got their own requirements for the reasons they do their work. So your urgency due to planning is not their problem necessarily. I know for a fact that Reese is very flexible, however, that flexibility doesn’t go a million miles forever because you’ve done me a lot of favors in the past when stuff popped up out of the blue, but at the same time, it’s always been very much respected in the sense of I mean, I feel terrible every single time I do. Um, but also the, um, it goes both ways, if that makes sense.
Rhys Wynne:
Yeah.
Chris Simmance:
And, you know, if you’re, if you’re running an agency, you, you’ve got to be on top of your operations. You’ve got to be on top of
Rhys Wynne:
Yeah.
Chris Simmance:
your planning. And, um, if you’re bringing someone in as an outsource provider of some kind of deliverable, um,
Rhys Wynne:
Yeah.
Chris Simmance:
you need to treat them in a sense as an extension of the team in order to manage that properly.
Rhys Wynne:
Yeah.
Chris Simmance:
Um, and, and that that’s part of that transparency piece there. Um,
Rhys Wynne:
Yeah.
Chris Simmance:
Reese. You’ve gone Tron style into one of your fantasy games and you’re wandering around the magical woods and all sorts of things like that whatever else is happening and some elf has come up to you and he’s given you a magic wand and you can use that magic wand in the real world which is pretty cool.
Rhys Wynne:
Yeah.
Chris Simmance:
What one thing would you use that magic wand on to change in all agencies in one go?
Rhys Wynne:
Um, I the one thing that I would love and it’s not necessarily just an agency because one it’s one for pretty much all clients. I if I could get rid of the ability the need to sell myself I doubt that and I’d just be like because the there is obviously a less diplomatic answer is the best agency is the one who just go right okay this is your day right there we go thank you very
Chris Simmance:
Yeah.
Rhys Wynne:
much we will pay you until the job is done every single day. You know, that’s, that’s always nice. Um, with that said, you know, and it’s almost, cause I will speak to a lot of people, agency owners, uh, heads of agent heads of departments of agencies, individual clients, you know, marketing managers of, uh, in house marketing managers, and you can almost, I’m getting better. Because this is why I try and get people on the phone quite quickly when I’m starting to speak for 15 minutes. Because it’s almost like dating. So
Chris Simmance:
Very much so.
Rhys Wynne:
you can figure out where you’re wasting your time. And you can figure out the ones that go, okay, well, this person gets it. This person understands
Chris Simmance:
Mm.
Rhys Wynne:
why you’re paying somebody, you know, a supplier to be there for you as opposed to going on, you know. a website
Chris Simmance:
Yeah.
Rhys Wynne:
that’s named after a short name for a five pound note.
Chris Simmance:
the
Rhys Wynne:
And I’m getting a developer from there for, you know,
Chris Simmance:
Yeah.
Rhys Wynne:
relatively cheap because I’m the one who’s going to be here. I’m the one who’s going to, you know, type in my company number, which is on the bottom of a website. You can, you know, don’t, but you can find out where I live. You know,
Chris Simmance:
Yeah,
Rhys Wynne:
kind of things.
Chris Simmance:
don’t show up because it’s not very much you can do out in the real world. It’s not
Rhys Wynne:
Yeah.
Chris Simmance:
a spanner and that to actually fix a website.
Rhys Wynne:
Yeah, exactly. So that would be my big thing is, is just like having the ability that I wouldn’t have to sell, sell myself or with somebody new, obviously long, you know, longer term
Chris Simmance:
Mm.
Rhys Wynne:
clients and the clients that I’ve built up relationships and are generally
Chris Simmance:
Mm.
Rhys Wynne:
happy to, you know, and understand that, and it can be a bit tricky just getting over that point. Because generally, as I said before, people come up to me when things are going wrong. And they’ve gone, okay, well, we’ve got this person who was 50 quid in a Mars bar. Other chocolates are available. And they’ve done this and it’s gone wrong. And I’m a little bit dearer. Um, I, you know, I don’t try and be fair and everything, but I’m a little bit dearer and they go, well, why are you so much more expensive? And it’s like, well, you’re coming to me.
Chris Simmance:
Yeah.
Rhys Wynne:
You know, there is a reason why.
Chris Simmance:
Um, I think there’s a love him or hate him and Elon Musk quote that says you’re paid in proportion to the problem that you solve or something to that effect.
Rhys Wynne:
Yeah.
Chris Simmance:
Um, and if that’s the case, then yeah, totally, totally agree. Reese, the most technical person I’ve been able to have on season three of the podcast so far, so I’m going to ask you a couple of final question.
Rhys Wynne:
Oh god, here we go.
Chris Simmance:
So loads of stuff’s
Rhys Wynne:
Right.
Chris Simmance:
changing in the industry at the minute. Um, there’s AI, there’s lots of other apps that are coming up. There’s loads of, there’s loads of technical changes, but it’s going to have a human impact for sure.
Rhys Wynne:
Yes.
Chris Simmance:
Where do you see things in the next few years and what kind of, more generally to the digital industry as a whole, what’s the outlook? What do you think?
Rhys Wynne:
I think it’s, I mean. I think, yes, that is a curveball. I wrote a piece about AI and how I think it’s going. And I think it’s going to affect everybody’s jobs. You know, there’s no point in saying, but I don’t think it’s going to affect anybody’s jobs in a particular way. I’m going to talk about it from a WordPress standpoint, if
Chris Simmance:
Yeah,
Rhys Wynne:
I may,
Chris Simmance:
please,
Rhys Wynne:
just
Chris Simmance:
that
Rhys Wynne:
for…
Chris Simmance:
makes a lot of sense.
Rhys Wynne:
Yeah. They put out on the WordPress repository, they said… every single LIDAR code, you can use AI in your plugins to write code.
Chris Simmance:
Yep.
Rhys Wynne:
So if you release a plugin and put it on the repository, which is where you download every WordPress plugin, except for the paid ones, you can write AI code. But you need to know where that code came from.
Chris Simmance:
Oh wow. Okay.
Rhys Wynne:
And that is a big thing, because all of a sudden, it’s like going, you don’t know. that and from a from a coder’s perspective, there, you know, I know where all my code came from because I wrote
Chris Simmance:
Mm.
Rhys Wynne:
it and I can figure out what it does. If you’re getting a junior, you know, not necessarily a junior,
Chris Simmance:
Yeah.
Rhys Wynne:
but if you’re getting an A, somebody writing code in AI, putting it on a website and it goes wrong.
Chris Simmance:
Mmm.
Rhys Wynne:
they may not have the ability to figure out where it’s gone wrong. And I think that’s gonna be a big thing. And I suppose from a more general digital standpoint, I think AI will hopefully make people’s jobs easier,
Chris Simmance:
Hmm.
Rhys Wynne:
but they need to know what they’re doing.
Chris Simmance:
Yeah.
Rhys Wynne:
It’s like everybody, most people in digital are very good at Googling. I mean,
Chris Simmance:
I feel like
Rhys Wynne:
I
Chris Simmance:
the
Rhys Wynne:
mean.
Chris Simmance:
first question you’d ask in the interview, right? Have you heard of Google?
Rhys Wynne:
Yeah, yeah. How good are you at Googling? And I think often, and I think AI is going to be the same thing in that you’re going to be
Chris Simmance:
Mm-hmm.
Rhys Wynne:
People who are good at Googling know what to Google to find out to get the results of what they need.
Chris Simmance:
Yes.
Rhys Wynne:
And you’re going to get the same when it comes to AI because they’re going to ask people are going to ask AI or something like chat GBT what they need to solve a problem. And if they’re… feeding the garbage and not really explaining itself particularly well. It’s the same with working with suppliers.
Chris Simmance:
Yeah.
Rhys Wynne:
If you don’t explain to ones as suppliers,
Chris Simmance:
Yeah, yeah, yeah. I’ve
Rhys Wynne:
it doesn’t…
Chris Simmance:
noticed that with, with prompts as well, actually, where I’ve tested it. I’ve given it arguably the same prompt. If I’d have asked the human the same two things, I’d have had the same two responses if it were the same human, but they aren’t the same prompts from that perspective. So if you’re good at it, then you’ll be able to use it quite well. And Rhys lovely as ever talking to you. Thank you so much for coming
Rhys Wynne:
as you.
Chris Simmance:
onto the podcast.
Rhys Wynne:
Not a problem, happy to have come on.
Chris Simmance:
And in our next episode, we’ll be speaking to another agency advisor, mentor, trainer or partner. And in the meantime, thanks very much for listening.