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Season 1 – Episode 67: Hilik Haviv – HVMA Marketing

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Season 1 – Episode 67: Hilik Haviv – HVMA Marketing

Chris simmance:

Thanks, VoiceOverGuy. Hello, hello, hello, everyone. Hello, Hillik, how are you doing?

 

Hilik Haviv:

Doing pretty good happy to be here

 

Chris simmance:

It’s very nice to have you on the podcast all the way from sunny USA. Whereabouts in the US are you?

 

Hilik Haviv:

Atlanta, Georgia.

 

Chris simmance:

Atlanta in Georgia.

 

Hilik Haviv:

Atlanta, Georgia, yes, definitely

 

Chris simmance:

Oh,

 

Hilik Haviv:

studying, yes.

 

Chris simmance:

it’s certainly I was going to say it’s definitely sunny, definitely sunny there. And so HVMA marketing, am I getting that right?

 

Hilik Haviv:

Yes, that is correct. HVMA Marketing, we are a data-driven marketing agency based in Atlanta, Georgia. And. Yeah, I’ve been here for a long time and looking forward for many more years.

 

Chris simmance:

And forgive me, where are you from originally?

 

Hilik Haviv:

All the way from the Holy Land of Israel

 

Chris simmance:

I was going to say because Hillick doesn’t sound very Georgian.

 

Hilik Haviv:

Right, yeah, I spoke with my parents about this next time they gotta give me a name that is easier to pronounce

 

Chris simmance:

Yeah, you’re good. I think we’re just about cracking it. I’ve watched a couple of the videos on your website prior to recording. I saw some of that data stuff coming out in there. I was doing dashboards and trying to make stories out of information and things like that. It’s a real skill set to be able to see these things, see the pin inside that haystack.

 

Hilik Haviv:

True, and like I said, we are a data-driven marketing agency. And what we do mainly is we help companies or our customers use the data they already have on their channels, whatever they collect. and then translate it into traffic and sales.

 

Chris simmance:

Yeah.

 

Hilik Haviv:

And when you say pin those ideas, I think that’s one of the main strengths or maybe why we are different than

 

Chris simmance:

Mmm.

 

Hilik Haviv:

other agencies is because of the mindset that we come with. Because the way that we try to combine data from one place to another, from one channel to another, the way we track things and the way the reports, if you’ll see the reports internally in the office, you’ll… you’ll think it’s craziness sometimes of the things that we’re looking to find

 

Chris simmance:

Yeah.

 

Hilik Haviv:

with data, a little bit different than the basic reports. And I say basic is not necessarily literally basic. I mean, we always go with advanced report, but even within the advanced reports, we’re always going to look for something that is a little bit deeper to understand not only the customer, the target audience, the product, the performance. And we do the same, by the way, with our, with our team. also

 

Chris simmance:

Hmm.

 

Hilik Haviv:

to understand each one and their performance.

 

Chris simmance:

I mean, that’s a really mature way of running an agency because I mean, there are, I’ve done the research having, I mean, I sell to agencies and naturally I’ve done some market research. There are about 800,000 English language first speaking agencies and the vast majority of them barely use barely scratch the surface when it comes to data. So it is a, it’s nice to actually, like I say, I’ve seen some of the videos, so I know you guys know. really what you’re talking about. How long has the agency been running for?

 

Hilik Haviv:

We started in 2014, so about nine years now.

 

Chris simmance:

And how have the nine years been? Has it been smooth sailing? Has it been choppy waters?

 

Hilik Haviv:

Oh, it’s a roller coaster.

 

Chris simmance:

Yeah,

 

Hilik Haviv:

Rollercoaster.

 

Chris simmance:

no agency is complete without roller coaster rides daily, right?

 

Hilik Haviv:

Here’s the thing that I’ve learned. If you don’t make any mistakes on the way, you’re never going to go to the next level because you got to learn from something. So,

 

Chris simmance:

Mmm.

 

Hilik Haviv:

over the, we had a very, very smooth start. Everything was going very well, you know, and me personally, when something goes very well, take the pessimistic part of my brain,

 

Chris simmance:

Mm.

 

Hilik Haviv:

something will balance it. So I’m the guy, by the way, that likes to balance everything in life in general, not only in the agency and the work. So something has to balance at some point when everything goes smooth.

 

Chris simmance:

Hmm.

 

Hilik Haviv:

And I’m not, again, I say the pessimistic, but in a business way of running the agency, I gotta be prepared and not to get a big hit when something like this happens.

 

Chris simmance:

Yeah.

 

Hilik Haviv:

By the way, and we

 

Chris simmance:

Yeah.

 

Hilik Haviv:

can speak about that, that was one of my biggest mistakes. in the past. We can speak about that as well.

 

Chris simmance:

We, I’m definitely going to ask you.

 

Hilik Haviv:

Yes, so you got to be prepared and at some point you get that hit when you go down in the rollercoaster ride.

 

Chris simmance:

Hmm.

 

Hilik Haviv:

You got

 

Chris simmance:

Yeah.

 

Hilik Haviv:

to be prepared for it and you got to be able to pick back up.

 

Chris simmance:

Exactly. So what do you think has been one of the biggest successes that you’ve seen in the last nine years of running the agency? I know there’s been ups and there’s been downs naturally, but what’s been something that’s been a big success that you can think of?

 

Hilik Haviv:

So what I consider the biggest success for us as an agency, And again, I told you we’re a little bit different, right? And we’re thinking a little bit different. So I’m not gonna tell you, hey, we did eight figures or seven figures or anything like that, even though we are very concentrating on results. But I think the biggest success of the agency is the fact that we have long-term customers. And especially in a business where you have to generate results, when you have long-term customers, that means you do something right. Because there’s not a lot of change. Many of the customers, especially in the past, were just starting with marketing. We’re not taking startups, but their marketing was either not successful, so they’re looking for a different agency, or they didn’t have a budget and now they’re scaling. So eventually if somebody stays with you for long, even if on the way there are also ups and downs within the marketing, because you’re not going to do the same great result every month. But within a quarter, within a year when you measure things, the fact that customers are staying with us for long term, that’s a big success for me.

 

Chris simmance:

Hmm. Yeah. And it means you’ve done your own marketing right. It means you’ve done your own sales right and your onboarding right, because they’re the right people before you even start.

 

Hilik Haviv:

Right. And that’s something that at the beginning you can’t really do.

 

Chris simmance:

Mm.

 

Hilik Haviv:

You can’t really decide I want that customer or the other. You just take pretty much whatever comes to your way, right? Or whatever,

 

Chris simmance:

See

 

Hilik Haviv:

whoever

 

Chris simmance:

you.

 

Hilik Haviv:

knocks on your door.

 

Chris simmance:

Mmm. Hmm.

 

Hilik Haviv:

It’s Chris, it’s only about results. Everybody gonna stay with you until a certain

 

Chris simmance:

Hmm.

 

Hilik Haviv:

point. If you don’t bring them the results, they’re gonna shake hands and go. And that’s something that I’ve learned over the years.

 

Chris simmance:

Mm.

 

Hilik Haviv:

that I had some clients. So here’s the thing, I’m the guy who really, I care about the job that I do. Okay, not beside the fact that I like what I do, but I care about it. And at the beginning, when I was even less in leadership and less in management position, I was like a lot more hands-on, right?

 

Chris simmance:

Yeah,

 

Hilik Haviv:

But I

 

Chris simmance:

exactly.

 

Hilik Haviv:

was the one,

 

Chris simmance:

You’ve

 

Hilik Haviv:

because

 

Chris simmance:

set the

 

Hilik Haviv:

it’s

 

Chris simmance:

bar high,

 

Hilik Haviv:

my agency,

 

Chris simmance:

so you need

 

Hilik Haviv:

I was

 

Chris simmance:

to

 

Hilik Haviv:

the

 

Chris simmance:

maintain

 

Hilik Haviv:

one that really

 

Chris simmance:

the standard

 

Hilik Haviv:

connects

 

Chris simmance:

that

 

Hilik Haviv:

with

 

Chris simmance:

you’ve set

 

Hilik Haviv:

the

 

Chris simmance:

up

 

Hilik Haviv:

customers.

 

Chris simmance:

up front.

 

Hilik Haviv:

And some

 

Chris simmance:

And

 

Hilik Haviv:

of

 

Chris simmance:

with

 

Hilik Haviv:

them

 

Chris simmance:

it,

 

Hilik Haviv:

were my friends,

 

Chris simmance:

to your point a

 

Hilik Haviv:

friends

 

Chris simmance:

minute ago

 

Hilik Haviv:

I’m

 

Chris simmance:

about,

 

Hilik Haviv:

talking

 

Chris simmance:

you

 

Hilik Haviv:

about

 

Chris simmance:

know, you,

 

Hilik Haviv:

outside of work.

 

Chris simmance:

when you start,

 

Hilik Haviv:

But at some

 

Chris simmance:

you don’t

 

Hilik Haviv:

point,

 

Chris simmance:

know who

 

Hilik Haviv:

if

 

Chris simmance:

to

 

Hilik Haviv:

you

 

Chris simmance:

take

 

Hilik Haviv:

don’t

 

Chris simmance:

on,

 

Hilik Haviv:

bring

 

Chris simmance:

and sometimes

 

Hilik Haviv:

the results,

 

Chris simmance:

you take the wrong

 

Hilik Haviv:

the

 

Chris simmance:

ones.

 

Hilik Haviv:

relationship

 

Chris simmance:

But you know, you say yes to

 

Hilik Haviv:

is

 

Chris simmance:

quite a lot of things.

 

Hilik Haviv:

taking a turn.

 

Chris simmance:

And what

 

Hilik Haviv:

And

 

Chris simmance:

I do with

 

Hilik Haviv:

then

 

Chris simmance:

the agencies

 

Hilik Haviv:

you also

 

Chris simmance:

that

 

Hilik Haviv:

realize

 

Chris simmance:

I work with

 

Hilik Haviv:

who’s

 

Chris simmance:

is often

 

Hilik Haviv:

really

 

Chris simmance:

we

 

Hilik Haviv:

a

 

Chris simmance:

put

 

Hilik Haviv:

friend

 

Chris simmance:

in place

 

Hilik Haviv:

and who’s there

 

Chris simmance:

some

 

Hilik Haviv:

just

 

Chris simmance:

lead

 

Hilik Haviv:

because

 

Chris simmance:

scoring

 

Hilik Haviv:

they need you.

 

Chris simmance:

metrics that

 

Hilik Haviv:

But

 

Chris simmance:

all

 

Hilik Haviv:

there are

 

Chris simmance:

new

 

Hilik Haviv:

ups and

 

Chris simmance:

leads

 

Hilik Haviv:

downs and you

 

Chris simmance:

need

 

Hilik Haviv:

see

 

Chris simmance:

to

 

Hilik Haviv:

if

 

Chris simmance:

meet

 

Hilik Haviv:

it brings

 

Chris simmance:

a certain

 

Hilik Haviv:

more arguments,

 

Chris simmance:

threshold.

 

Hilik Haviv:

if it brings more

 

Chris simmance:

And then we retrospectively

 

Hilik Haviv:

questionable

 

Chris simmance:

do lead scoring.

 

Hilik Haviv:

behavior,

 

Chris simmance:

on old clients,

 

Hilik Haviv:

then you

 

Chris simmance:

including

 

Hilik Haviv:

understand. And

 

Chris simmance:

ones

 

Hilik Haviv:

at

 

Chris simmance:

that

 

Hilik Haviv:

some

 

Chris simmance:

have lost.

 

Hilik Haviv:

point I realize, you

 

Chris simmance:

So

 

Hilik Haviv:

know,

 

Chris simmance:

that

 

Hilik Haviv:

at

 

Chris simmance:

we

 

Hilik Haviv:

the

 

Chris simmance:

can

 

Hilik Haviv:

end of

 

Chris simmance:

look

 

Hilik Haviv:

the day,

 

Chris simmance:

at

 

Hilik Haviv:

I’m

 

Chris simmance:

whether

 

Hilik Haviv:

the

 

Chris simmance:

there’s

 

Hilik Haviv:

service

 

Chris simmance:

a trend.

 

Hilik Haviv:

provider.

 

Chris simmance:

So we’re using data

 

Hilik Haviv:

And

 

Chris simmance:

a little bit,

 

Hilik Haviv:

if I don’t bring the

 

Chris simmance:

but

 

Hilik Haviv:

results,

 

Chris simmance:

we look to see if there’s

 

Hilik Haviv:

they’re

 

Chris simmance:

a trend

 

Hilik Haviv:

going to shake

 

Chris simmance:

and if there’s

 

Hilik Haviv:

hands

 

Chris simmance:

a nice

 

Hilik Haviv:

and go.

 

Chris simmance:

trend, then we know,

 

Hilik Haviv:

Even if we’ll stay

 

Chris simmance:

okay,

 

Hilik Haviv:

friends later,

 

Chris simmance:

the

 

Hilik Haviv:

we’re

 

Chris simmance:

lead

 

Hilik Haviv:

not

 

Chris simmance:

scoring

 

Hilik Haviv:

going to do

 

Chris simmance:

needs

 

Hilik Haviv:

business

 

Chris simmance:

to moderate

 

Hilik Haviv:

together.

 

Chris simmance:

slightly because the future clients will then be more likely to stay longer or less likely to be a pain in the ass. So that’s a really big success to be able to keep your clients and keep your clients happy, especially. Sometimes it’s not just about results that keeps clients, isn’t it? You know, you keep them happy, you show them that you care, you show them that you know what you’re doing. You can’t control the click at the end of the day.

 

Hilik Haviv:

As the business, not just as the relationship, track everything. Track every little thing. Connect all the channels together. And again, that goes to anything online and everything internally in the office. But if we’re talking about the customers… Track everything from their website, every little page, every activity, from their social media, any network separately, any email that we’re sending, any separate email. So again, we can go to segmentations a lot deeper and really it’s different between service companies and e-commerce companies. But track everything

 

Chris simmance:

Hmm.

 

Hilik Haviv:

and use the data to understand your performance. and to improve your performance and to see if you are

 

Chris simmance:

Hmm.

 

Hilik Haviv:

efficient. And the same thing I said goes internally. If we’re talking to agencies, owners and not the business or not the customers. So the owners track everything within the office of your team, how they do, what they do, is it efficient or not? And that’s how, and this is something I didn’t do at the beginning. We didn’t, we didn’t start as a data marketing company.

 

Chris simmance:

Yeah, well, this is the key thing though. It’s the shake hands and go, rather than the go

 

Hilik Haviv:

So,

 

Chris simmance:

without

 

Hilik Haviv:

I

 

Chris simmance:

the

 

Hilik Haviv:

literally

 

Chris simmance:

shaking hands.

 

Hilik Haviv:

got the

 

Chris simmance:

So

 

Hilik Haviv:

biggest

 

Chris simmance:

if you

 

Hilik Haviv:

client

 

Chris simmance:

could go back nine years,

 

Hilik Haviv:

I had,

 

Chris simmance:

knowing everything you

 

Hilik Haviv:

let’s

 

Chris simmance:

know

 

Hilik Haviv:

say,

 

Chris simmance:

now,

 

Hilik Haviv:

in the first

 

Chris simmance:

you

 

Hilik Haviv:

three

 

Chris simmance:

jump

 

Hilik Haviv:

or four

 

Chris simmance:

in your

 

Hilik Haviv:

years.

 

Chris simmance:

time machine

 

Hilik Haviv:

I got it in the first

 

Chris simmance:

and

 

Hilik Haviv:

week

 

Chris simmance:

you can speak to yourself.

 

Hilik Haviv:

when we

 

Chris simmance:

What

 

Hilik Haviv:

just

 

Chris simmance:

one piece

 

Hilik Haviv:

opened

 

Chris simmance:

of advice

 

Hilik Haviv:

the office.

 

Chris simmance:

do you think you’d give

 

Hilik Haviv:

So,

 

Chris simmance:

yourself

 

Hilik Haviv:

I

 

Chris simmance:

just

 

Hilik Haviv:

did some

 

Chris simmance:

as you’re

 

Hilik Haviv:

freelance

 

Chris simmance:

starting out?

 

Hilik Haviv:

work before I opened the office. The reason I opened the office is because I needed help. I had more customers

 

Chris simmance:

Mm.

 

Hilik Haviv:

and

 

Chris simmance:

Mm.

 

Hilik Haviv:

I needed more people on my team. But once we opened the office in the first week, walked in a customer that was or became the biggest customer for the next few years. And yeah, and that’s great. Everything’s smooth, right? So you focus on different things. Sometimes it’s the wrong things for your growth and you have to be aware of that. Let me use the word habit instead of a toy because again we still do work at the office and

 

Chris simmance:

Mm.

 

Hilik Haviv:

we’re growing in a certain way but what you refer to is something that

 

Chris simmance:

Yeah.

 

Hilik Haviv:

I think a lot of agencies experience

 

Chris simmance:

You’re too busy

 

Hilik Haviv:

at the beginning,

 

Chris simmance:

cruising

 

Hilik Haviv:

you work

 

Chris simmance:

the

 

Hilik Haviv:

hard to get a client,

 

Chris simmance:

upward curve, enjoying the job

 

Hilik Haviv:

and once

 

Chris simmance:

and

 

Hilik Haviv:

you get it,

 

Chris simmance:

getting

 

Hilik Haviv:

you work

 

Chris simmance:

excited

 

Hilik Haviv:

hard

 

Chris simmance:

about

 

Hilik Haviv:

to maintain

 

Chris simmance:

each new challenge,

 

Hilik Haviv:

it,

 

Chris simmance:

aren’t you?

 

Hilik Haviv:

but you kinda neglect getting more and more leads and more clients at the same time. And that’s the part of hands-on, or maybe you don’t have a bigger team, or you don’t have the budget really to do all these things. So you focus on keeping that big client, or keeping those few clients at the beginning happy. But you forget to grow and then when something happens or one of them wants to go or anything, you know, it just, then you find yourself in it almost at the beginning again, you have to rebuild again.

 

Chris simmance:

Yeah. Hmm. Yeah. And, and this is so I’ve noticed this having spoken to so many agency people, just in the running of this podcast, but also the ones I work with. And I think of it like,

 

Hilik Haviv:

So

 

Chris simmance:

you know, shiny things

 

Hilik Haviv:

one thing

 

Chris simmance:

shiny

 

Hilik Haviv:

that

 

Chris simmance:

thing,

 

Hilik Haviv:

I did at the beginning

 

Chris simmance:

and you jump

 

Hilik Haviv:

is I tried

 

Chris simmance:

between

 

Hilik Haviv:

to go to

 

Chris simmance:

the

 

Hilik Haviv:

a

 

Chris simmance:

thing

 

Hilik Haviv:

different

 

Chris simmance:

that you’re that’s exciting

 

Hilik Haviv:

areas

 

Chris simmance:

or really

 

Hilik Haviv:

within the marketing.

 

Chris simmance:

provide some value

 

Hilik Haviv:

One

 

Chris simmance:

right

 

Hilik Haviv:

thing

 

Chris simmance:

now.

 

Hilik Haviv:

that I understood

 

Chris simmance:

And then the next

 

Hilik Haviv:

right

 

Chris simmance:

one

 

Hilik Haviv:

at

 

Chris simmance:

and

 

Hilik Haviv:

the

 

Chris simmance:

the

 

Hilik Haviv:

beginning

 

Chris simmance:

next one, and you forget

 

Hilik Haviv:

is

 

Chris simmance:

to

 

Hilik Haviv:

that

 

Chris simmance:

actually

 

Hilik Haviv:

there

 

Chris simmance:

build

 

Hilik Haviv:

is

 

Chris simmance:

a business,

 

Hilik Haviv:

no one channel

 

Chris simmance:

because

 

Hilik Haviv:

that

 

Chris simmance:

it’s not

 

Hilik Haviv:

will

 

Chris simmance:

a

 

Hilik Haviv:

bring

 

Chris simmance:

business

 

Hilik Haviv:

you the success.

 

Chris simmance:

until you can’t

 

Hilik Haviv:

And

 

Chris simmance:

until

 

Hilik Haviv:

this

 

Chris simmance:

you don’t

 

Hilik Haviv:

is

 

Chris simmance:

need

 

Hilik Haviv:

a

 

Chris simmance:

to

 

Hilik Haviv:

mistake

 

Chris simmance:

be in it.

 

Hilik Haviv:

that I saw from

 

Chris simmance:

Um,

 

Hilik Haviv:

many of the

 

Chris simmance:

it’s

 

Hilik Haviv:

customers

 

Chris simmance:

a, it’s

 

Hilik Haviv:

that

 

Chris simmance:

a,

 

Hilik Haviv:

came

 

Chris simmance:

it’s

 

Hilik Haviv:

to us

 

Chris simmance:

a,

 

Hilik Haviv:

in the first

 

Chris simmance:

um,

 

Hilik Haviv:

few years.

 

Chris simmance:

a toy

 

Hilik Haviv:

When they come

 

Chris simmance:

until

 

Hilik Haviv:

to

 

Chris simmance:

you

 

Hilik Haviv:

the office

 

Chris simmance:

want,

 

Hilik Haviv:

and they

 

Chris simmance:

until

 

Hilik Haviv:

ask

 

Chris simmance:

you

 

Hilik Haviv:

you

 

Chris simmance:

exit.

 

Hilik Haviv:

to do, let’s say their Facebook or Facebook advertising, but they don’t think Google advertising, they don’t think Instagram or LinkedIn, today even TikTok, they don’t think email marketing, they don’t think SEO, they think one specific thing because of any reason, right? And the same thing

 

Chris simmance:

Hmm.

 

Hilik Haviv:

somebody else can come say, I want Google advertising, but they don’t think YouTube advertising might be a force and they don’t think, you know, email marketing to follow up. And they don’t think about up sales. And they don’t think about follow up within customers that are lost or anything like that. So something that I understood is that, and what we call omni-channel marketing, is that there is no one channel. So even though there are endless possibilities right now, and if I go to the extreme, the other side, you don’t want somebody to come and say, I want you to take care of everything. because

 

Chris simmance:

Is there something

 

Hilik Haviv:

they

 

Chris simmance:

that

 

Hilik Haviv:

really need

 

Chris simmance:

you did

 

Hilik Haviv:

an unlimited

 

Chris simmance:

relatively

 

Hilik Haviv:

budget

 

Chris simmance:

early

 

Hilik Haviv:

for

 

Chris simmance:

in

 

Hilik Haviv:

it.

 

Chris simmance:

the

 

Hilik Haviv:

But

 

Chris simmance:

agency’s

 

Hilik Haviv:

there needs to

 

Chris simmance:

life

 

Hilik Haviv:

be multiple channels that you work

 

Chris simmance:

that you

 

Hilik Haviv:

on. So

 

Chris simmance:

kind

 

Hilik Haviv:

what

 

Chris simmance:

of

 

Hilik Haviv:

I did,

 

Chris simmance:

stuck to?

 

Hilik Haviv:

training

 

Chris simmance:

It’s

 

Hilik Haviv:

my

 

Chris simmance:

been

 

Hilik Haviv:

team

 

Chris simmance:

something that was

 

Hilik Haviv:

and

 

Chris simmance:

successful,

 

Hilik Haviv:

myself

 

Chris simmance:

but

 

Hilik Haviv:

as well,

 

Chris simmance:

you really

 

Hilik Haviv:

is learning

 

Chris simmance:

realised

 

Hilik Haviv:

something

 

Chris simmance:

this

 

Hilik Haviv:

new

 

Chris simmance:

is our kind

 

Hilik Haviv:

every

 

Chris simmance:

of secret

 

Hilik Haviv:

single

 

Chris simmance:

source.

 

Hilik Haviv:

month.

 

Chris simmance:

What have you…

 

Hilik Haviv:

And that means

 

Chris simmance:

what’s

 

Hilik Haviv:

if

 

Chris simmance:

been

 

Hilik Haviv:

I’m

 

Chris simmance:

a…

 

Hilik Haviv:

an expert in

 

Chris simmance:

I’m holding

 

Hilik Haviv:

Google

 

Chris simmance:

on to that

 

Hilik Haviv:

advertising,

 

Chris simmance:

and I’m going to keep doing this.

 

Hilik Haviv:

now I want to know the Facebook platform. Now I want to know… TikTok platform now I want to know email marketing and when I say I want to know it’s not just going to you know Give me a demo. I’m the one who I’m doing a lot of demos. So I’m the one who wants to really understand a software that is Beneficial for us and Google by the way Google advertising that’s a software if you want So I went into this one and I trained my team

 

Chris simmance:

Hmm.

 

Hilik Haviv:

to learn something new So eventually we have expertise in multiple areas And eventually, if we take you a few years forward, that was very, very beneficial.

 

Chris simmance:

Mm-hmm.

 

Hilik Haviv:

That’s true. And you have to understand your team to read them in the right way to understand what fits

 

Chris simmance:

Hmm.

 

Hilik Haviv:

for each one of them. So you can send your media buyer to copywriting training if they’re not really into writing. Some people generate great ideas in their mind, but they don’t really implement it in writing. So you have to read your team and then fit that next skill within their character.

 

Chris simmance:

Yeah, well, you’re building an asset, a knowledge asset internally. And, you know, and the good thing is, you know, when a member of staff leaves and go somewhere else, they only have good things to say, because they got that new job because of how good they were in their previous job and how much you let them learn and things, but you got so much value

 

Hilik Haviv:

That’s

 

Chris simmance:

out of

 

Hilik Haviv:

true.

 

Chris simmance:

those people because they were

 

Hilik Haviv:

Again

 

Chris simmance:

doing something

 

Hilik Haviv:

another…

 

Chris simmance:

they loved, they were doing something they were good at and

 

Hilik Haviv:

the

 

Chris simmance:

like,

 

Hilik Haviv:

conversations with

 

Chris simmance:

people

 

Hilik Haviv:

the customers

 

Chris simmance:

feel

 

Hilik Haviv:

and we’re

 

Chris simmance:

good

 

Hilik Haviv:

learning

 

Chris simmance:

when they’ve

 

Hilik Haviv:

from the

 

Chris simmance:

learned

 

Hilik Haviv:

mistakes

 

Chris simmance:

something,

 

Hilik Haviv:

on their, or

 

Chris simmance:

when there’s a challenge that’s been overcome.

 

Hilik Haviv:

whatever they’re

 

Chris simmance:

You don’t

 

Hilik Haviv:

asking

 

Chris simmance:

feel

 

Hilik Haviv:

us to

 

Chris simmance:

great

 

Hilik Haviv:

do, right?

 

Chris simmance:

when you’re learning

 

Hilik Haviv:

One thing

 

Chris simmance:

something

 

Hilik Haviv:

that

 

Chris simmance:

that

 

Hilik Haviv:

I saw

 

Chris simmance:

you don’t

 

Hilik Haviv:

over the

 

Chris simmance:

want

 

Hilik Haviv:

years

 

Chris simmance:

to do.

 

Hilik Haviv:

is companies are trying

 

Chris simmance:

You know, if you think

 

Hilik Haviv:

to

 

Chris simmance:

back to

 

Hilik Haviv:

save

 

Chris simmance:

school,

 

Hilik Haviv:

on their marketing.

 

Chris simmance:

you think.

 

Hilik Haviv:

So, and that became one of the main things for us is that we want your marketing to be an income and not an expense. We’re not saving on marketing because marketing is the one that needs to bring you return, right? So if you’re saving on marketing, it means something is wrong. You’re not generating sales. And what I do, I take that mindset or that sentence and says, or that statement, and I say, I’m not saving on marketing. And this doesn’t mean the Google budget. This means also my team. So my

 

Chris simmance:

Yeah.

 

Hilik Haviv:

team are marketers

 

Chris simmance:

And that comes

 

Hilik Haviv:

at the

 

Chris simmance:

again

 

Hilik Haviv:

end of the day, whether they’re data

 

Chris simmance:

at the

 

Hilik Haviv:

analysts

 

Chris simmance:

certain expense

 

Hilik Haviv:

or

 

Chris simmance:

of

 

Hilik Haviv:

media

 

Chris simmance:

time

 

Hilik Haviv:

buyers

 

Chris simmance:

and resource on your side,

 

Hilik Haviv:

or, or

 

Chris simmance:

but

 

Hilik Haviv:

even

 

Chris simmance:

it

 

Hilik Haviv:

a Google

 

Chris simmance:

pays

 

Hilik Haviv:

specialist,

 

Chris simmance:

itself

 

Hilik Haviv:

right?

 

Chris simmance:

back. And

 

Hilik Haviv:

But

 

Chris simmance:

this is something

 

Hilik Haviv:

they’re

 

Chris simmance:

that

 

Hilik Haviv:

marketers at

 

Chris simmance:

a

 

Hilik Haviv:

the

 

Chris simmance:

lot of

 

Hilik Haviv:

end.

 

Chris simmance:

agency leaders

 

Hilik Haviv:

And I want

 

Chris simmance:

miss.

 

Hilik Haviv:

to

 

Chris simmance:

They, you know, they

 

Hilik Haviv:

invest

 

Chris simmance:

think, oh,

 

Hilik Haviv:

in

 

Chris simmance:

I don’t

 

Hilik Haviv:

the marketing

 

Chris simmance:

have the time for

 

Hilik Haviv:

and

 

Chris simmance:

that.

 

Hilik Haviv:

I invest

 

Chris simmance:

I’ll give them

 

Hilik Haviv:

in them. So eventually

 

Chris simmance:

the PDF

 

Hilik Haviv:

they bring also

 

Chris simmance:

guide

 

Hilik Haviv:

better results.

 

Chris simmance:

and let them learn this thing, because it will take half an hour to read that rather than four hours for training or over the course of several weeks. And it’s a, like a, a lost it’s a sunk cost fallacy, you think you’re spending on their on their salaries, but

 

Hilik Haviv:

So

 

Chris simmance:

actually

 

Hilik Haviv:

biggest

 

Chris simmance:

you

 

Hilik Haviv:

shit,

 

Chris simmance:

need to be spending on their brains

 

Hilik Haviv:

that was,

 

Chris simmance:

as much as giving them the money.

 

Hilik Haviv:

if you

 

Chris simmance:

And

 

Hilik Haviv:

take us a few years

 

Chris simmance:

as something

 

Hilik Haviv:

back, we were

 

Chris simmance:

you get

 

Hilik Haviv:

focusing

 

Chris simmance:

so much more from

 

Hilik Haviv:

on

 

Chris simmance:

people who

 

Hilik Haviv:

content.

 

Chris simmance:

feel valued and the good

 

Hilik Haviv:

So we

 

Chris simmance:

way

 

Hilik Haviv:

were

 

Chris simmance:

to show

 

Hilik Haviv:

content

 

Chris simmance:

value

 

Hilik Haviv:

creators.

 

Chris simmance:

isn’t just giving them cash.

 

Hilik Haviv:

That’s how the beginning of HVMA, in the first few years, content creators. And we created any type of content, from graphic to videos to writing content, to anything goes to your website, to your social media. And we were pretty good at it, and everything was good. And you know how people say content is the king, right? I a little bit disagree with that. I obviously think data is the king. because data is the most valuable asset on earth. But what happened is at some point, and that was somewhere in the middle, we started to realize that content is nice, but it doesn’t necessarily bring you sales. So you might have a great video, you’ll get a lot of followers maybe if it goes viral, and we had some viral videos over the years, but it’s not necessarily translating into sales if you don’t send them emails, if you don’t really retarget them, if you don’t… you know, really understand and give them relevant offers. So I think that was my biggest mistake is that we focus too much on content instead of focusing on the sales part and driving traffic to your channels all the time. And

 

Chris simmance:

Yeah, absolutely.

 

Hilik Haviv:

at some point we

 

Chris simmance:

Absolutely.

 

Hilik Haviv:

stopped providing

 

Chris simmance:

So just talked

 

Hilik Haviv:

that

 

Chris simmance:

about

 

Hilik Haviv:

service

 

Chris simmance:

a thing that

 

Hilik Haviv:

of

 

Chris simmance:

you’ve done

 

Hilik Haviv:

operating

 

Chris simmance:

well

 

Hilik Haviv:

your Facebook

 

Chris simmance:

that you

 

Hilik Haviv:

page,

 

Chris simmance:

know, is

 

Hilik Haviv:

operating

 

Chris simmance:

a big

 

Hilik Haviv:

your

 

Chris simmance:

part

 

Hilik Haviv:

Instagram

 

Chris simmance:

of the business.

 

Hilik Haviv:

page. That

 

Chris simmance:

What have you

 

Hilik Haviv:

became

 

Chris simmance:

done

 

Hilik Haviv:

just

 

Chris simmance:

that’s,

 

Hilik Haviv:

a department

 

Chris simmance:

you know,

 

Hilik Haviv:

instead

 

Chris simmance:

not

 

Hilik Haviv:

of

 

Chris simmance:

so

 

Hilik Haviv:

the

 

Chris simmance:

good?

 

Hilik Haviv:

main work that

 

Chris simmance:

What

 

Hilik Haviv:

we

 

Chris simmance:

happened?

 

Hilik Haviv:

do. We shifted

 

Chris simmance:

What was your

 

Hilik Haviv:

into

 

Chris simmance:

biggest?

 

Hilik Haviv:

campaigns.

 

Chris simmance:

Ah, shit.

 

Hilik Haviv:

And at that point, we also went a lot into e-commerce because that’s measurable. So we can actually create campaigns for you. We’ll give you some things just for the campaign to be consistent, to be on your channels, but we’re not gonna operate your Facebook on daily basis like we did before. We don’t care about the content that you upload on your Facebook. Of course, it needs to be consistent with the campaign. But we’ve focused on the campaign. We focus on the results, on the KPIs, and have to make sure that at the end of the day, you pay us X, we’re bringing X times three,

 

Chris simmance:

Mmm.

 

Hilik Haviv:

X times four. That’s what we want. And that’s what you want to hear as our customer. Everything is measurable,

 

Chris simmance:

Yeah, yeah.

 

Hilik Haviv:

measurable results. Here’s the data. Here’s why something works here. Why it doesn’t. So, well, that’s a very open question. Right, right. So because I already said track everything and that would be maybe the main thing, but I’ll say if you just open a new agency

 

Chris simmance:

Mmm.

 

Hilik Haviv:

right now, think about your plan and which type of customers are you going to get and based on this one, build your team. So don’t just go to say, okay, I need a social media manager and I need a data analyst and I need a media buyer because your customers or the one that will come through your door tomorrow might need something else and now you’re missing the person or you’re giving a teammate a test that they’re not really comfortable with and they’re not going to generate the great results. So really think you’re going e-commerce, you want a copywriter, you want a media buyer. You want a web designer who can create a landing page very quick or up sales or build a funnel for you. So really think which way you’re going

 

Chris simmance:

Mm-hmm.

 

Hilik Haviv:

to go. And you can tell that by the way I’m going to advertise or the way I’m going to present my company. And

 

Chris simmance:

Yeah,

 

Hilik Haviv:

based on this

 

Chris simmance:

yeah, yeah.

 

Hilik Haviv:

one, build a team. If you don’t have a big budget to take 15 people right at the beginning, which most agencies don’t, choose carefully the positions. and try to bring specialists to each position.

 

Chris simmance:

Yeah.

 

Hilik Haviv:

So don’t bring one person, social media manager,

 

Chris simmance:

And with

 

Hilik Haviv:

let

 

Chris simmance:

the data,

 

Hilik Haviv:

them write

 

Chris simmance:

you can prove it, which is great.

 

Hilik Haviv:

content, let them do SEO, let them do the advertising, let them do this and that. That’s just gonna bring average results.

 

Chris simmance:

Yeah, totally

 

Hilik Haviv:

Bring somebody

 

Chris simmance:

love

 

Hilik Haviv:

who’s

 

Chris simmance:

that.

 

Hilik Haviv:

a specialist. I prefer

 

Chris simmance:

So

 

Hilik Haviv:

to bring

 

Chris simmance:

if someone’s

 

Hilik Haviv:

a Google

 

Chris simmance:

just

 

Hilik Haviv:

advertising

 

Chris simmance:

listening to this

 

Hilik Haviv:

specialist

 

Chris simmance:

now and they’re thinking of starting

 

Hilik Haviv:

and let

 

Chris simmance:

their

 

Hilik Haviv:

them do

 

Chris simmance:

own

 

Hilik Haviv:

Google

 

Chris simmance:

agency,

 

Hilik Haviv:

advertising

 

Chris simmance:

what one piece of advice

 

Hilik Haviv:

and not

 

Chris simmance:

would

 

Hilik Haviv:

something

 

Chris simmance:

you give

 

Hilik Haviv:

else

 

Chris simmance:

them?

 

Hilik Haviv:

because that will bring me better success.

 

Chris simmance:

Yeah, you’ve got one piece of advice, though.

 

Hilik Haviv:

I tell you something, there’s one more thing that I’ll add to that. Over the years we changed and now we present it. There’s marketing and there’s professional marketing. So you can go hire somebody just because they’re cheaper in price per hour or something and they will do some marketing for you, but it’s not going to be professional marketing. There is, you know, today every teenager can post. Content on Facebook. You don’t really need an agency for it. You don’t need a social media manager for it in the same matter We say anybody with an arm can throw a football, but not everybody can do it professionally So just make sure if you want to get the right results take a professional build the right team and then look for the success

 

Chris simmance:

Mm.

 

Hilik Haviv:

Thank you for having me, I appreciate it.

 

Chris simmance:

Chris simmance:
Thanks, VoiceOverGuy. Hello, hello, hello, everyone. Hello, Hillik, how are you doing?

Hilik Haviv:
Doing pretty good happy to be here

Chris simmance:
It’s very nice to have you on the podcast all the way from sunny USA. Whereabouts in the US are you?

Hilik Haviv:
Atlanta, Georgia.

Chris simmance:
Atlanta in Georgia.

Hilik Haviv:
Atlanta, Georgia, yes, definitely

Chris simmance:
Oh,

Hilik Haviv:
studying, yes.

Chris simmance:
it’s certainly I was going to say it’s definitely sunny, definitely sunny there. And so HVMA marketing, am I getting that right?

Hilik Haviv:
Yes, that is correct. HVMA Marketing, we are a data-driven marketing agency based in Atlanta, Georgia. And. Yeah, I’ve been here for a long time and looking forward for many more years.

Chris simmance:
And forgive me, where are you from originally?

Hilik Haviv:
All the way from the Holy Land of Israel

Chris simmance:
I was going to say because Hillick doesn’t sound very Georgian.

Hilik Haviv:
Right, yeah, I spoke with my parents about this next time they gotta give me a name that is easier to pronounce

Chris simmance:
Yeah, you’re good. I think we’re just about cracking it. I’ve watched a couple of the videos on your website prior to recording. I saw some of that data stuff coming out in there. I was doing dashboards and trying to make stories out of information and things like that. It’s a real skill set to be able to see these things, see the pin inside that haystack.

Hilik Haviv:
True, and like I said, we are a data-driven marketing agency. And what we do mainly is we help companies or our customers use the data they already have on their channels, whatever they collect. and then translate it into traffic and sales.

Chris simmance:
Yeah.

Hilik Haviv:
And when you say pin those ideas, I think that’s one of the main strengths or maybe why we are different than

Chris simmance:
Mmm.

Hilik Haviv:
other agencies is because of the mindset that we come with. Because the way that we try to combine data from one place to another, from one channel to another, the way we track things and the way the reports, if you’ll see the reports internally in the office, you’ll… you’ll think it’s craziness sometimes of the things that we’re looking to find

Chris simmance:
Yeah.

Hilik Haviv:
with data, a little bit different than the basic reports. And I say basic is not necessarily literally basic. I mean, we always go with advanced report, but even within the advanced reports, we’re always going to look for something that is a little bit deeper to understand not only the customer, the target audience, the product, the performance. And we do the same, by the way, with our, with our team. also

Chris simmance:
Hmm.

Hilik Haviv:
to understand each one and their performance.

Chris simmance:
I mean, that’s a really mature way of running an agency because I mean, there are, I’ve done the research having, I mean, I sell to agencies and naturally I’ve done some market research. There are about 800,000 English language first speaking agencies and the vast majority of them barely use barely scratch the surface when it comes to data. So it is a, it’s nice to actually, like I say, I’ve seen some of the videos, so I know you guys know. really what you’re talking about. How long has the agency been running for?

Hilik Haviv:
We started in 2014, so about nine years now.

Chris simmance:
And how have the nine years been? Has it been smooth sailing? Has it been choppy waters?

Hilik Haviv:
Oh, it’s a roller coaster.

Chris simmance:
Yeah,

Hilik Haviv:
Rollercoaster.

Chris simmance:
no agency is complete without roller coaster rides daily, right?

Hilik Haviv:
Here’s the thing that I’ve learned. If you don’t make any mistakes on the way, you’re never going to go to the next level because you got to learn from something. So,

Chris simmance:
Mmm.

Hilik Haviv:
over the, we had a very, very smooth start. Everything was going very well, you know, and me personally, when something goes very well, take the pessimistic part of my brain,

Chris simmance:
Mm.

Hilik Haviv:
something will balance it. So I’m the guy, by the way, that likes to balance everything in life in general, not only in the agency and the work. So something has to balance at some point when everything goes smooth.

Chris simmance:
Hmm.

Hilik Haviv:
And I’m not, again, I say the pessimistic, but in a business way of running the agency, I gotta be prepared and not to get a big hit when something like this happens.

Chris simmance:
Yeah.

Hilik Haviv:
By the way, and we

Chris simmance:
Yeah.

Hilik Haviv:
can speak about that, that was one of my biggest mistakes. in the past. We can speak about that as well.

Chris simmance:
We, I’m definitely going to ask you.

Hilik Haviv:
Yes, so you got to be prepared and at some point you get that hit when you go down in the rollercoaster ride.

Chris simmance:
Hmm.

Hilik Haviv:
You got

Chris simmance:
Yeah.

Hilik Haviv:
to be prepared for it and you got to be able to pick back up.

Chris simmance:
Exactly. So what do you think has been one of the biggest successes that you’ve seen in the last nine years of running the agency? I know there’s been ups and there’s been downs naturally, but what’s been something that’s been a big success that you can think of?

Hilik Haviv:
So what I consider the biggest success for us as an agency, And again, I told you we’re a little bit different, right? And we’re thinking a little bit different. So I’m not gonna tell you, hey, we did eight figures or seven figures or anything like that, even though we are very concentrating on results. But I think the biggest success of the agency is the fact that we have long-term customers. And especially in a business where you have to generate results, when you have long-term customers, that means you do something right. Because there’s not a lot of change. Many of the customers, especially in the past, were just starting with marketing. We’re not taking startups, but their marketing was either not successful, so they’re looking for a different agency, or they didn’t have a budget and now they’re scaling. So eventually if somebody stays with you for long, even if on the way there are also ups and downs within the marketing, because you’re not going to do the same great result every month. But within a quarter, within a year when you measure things, the fact that customers are staying with us for long term, that’s a big success for me.

Chris simmance:
Hmm. Yeah. And it means you’ve done your own marketing right. It means you’ve done your own sales right and your onboarding right, because they’re the right people before you even start.

Hilik Haviv:
Right. And that’s something that at the beginning you can’t really do.

Chris simmance:
Mm.

Hilik Haviv:
You can’t really decide I want that customer or the other. You just take pretty much whatever comes to your way, right? Or whatever,

Chris simmance:
See

Hilik Haviv:
whoever

Chris simmance:
you.

Hilik Haviv:
knocks on your door.

Chris simmance:
Mmm. Hmm.

Hilik Haviv:
It’s Chris, it’s only about results. Everybody gonna stay with you until a certain

Chris simmance:
Hmm.

Hilik Haviv:
point. If you don’t bring them the results, they’re gonna shake hands and go. And that’s something that I’ve learned over the years.

Chris simmance:
Mm.

Hilik Haviv:
that I had some clients. So here’s the thing, I’m the guy who really, I care about the job that I do. Okay, not beside the fact that I like what I do, but I care about it. And at the beginning, when I was even less in leadership and less in management position, I was like a lot more hands-on, right?

Chris simmance:
Yeah,

Hilik Haviv:
But I

Chris simmance:
exactly.

Hilik Haviv:
was the one,

Chris simmance:
You’ve

Hilik Haviv:
because

Chris simmance:
set the

Hilik Haviv:
it’s

Chris simmance:
bar high,

Hilik Haviv:
my agency,

Chris simmance:
so you need

Hilik Haviv:
I was

Chris simmance:
to

Hilik Haviv:
the

Chris simmance:
maintain

Hilik Haviv:
one that really

Chris simmance:
the standard

Hilik Haviv:
connects

Chris simmance:
that

Hilik Haviv:
with

Chris simmance:
you’ve set

Hilik Haviv:
the

Chris simmance:
up

Hilik Haviv:
customers.

Chris simmance:
up front.

Hilik Haviv:
And some

Chris simmance:
And

Hilik Haviv:
of

Chris simmance:
with

Hilik Haviv:
them

Chris simmance:
it,

Hilik Haviv:
were my friends,

Chris simmance:
to your point a

Hilik Haviv:
friends

Chris simmance:
minute ago

Hilik Haviv:
I’m

Chris simmance:
about,

Hilik Haviv:
talking

Chris simmance:
you

Hilik Haviv:
about

Chris simmance:
know, you,

Hilik Haviv:
outside of work.

Chris simmance:
when you start,

Hilik Haviv:
But at some

Chris simmance:
you don’t

Hilik Haviv:
point,

Chris simmance:
know who

Hilik Haviv:
if

Chris simmance:
to

Hilik Haviv:
you

Chris simmance:
take

Hilik Haviv:
don’t

Chris simmance:
on,

Hilik Haviv:
bring

Chris simmance:
and sometimes

Hilik Haviv:
the results,

Chris simmance:
you take the wrong

Hilik Haviv:
the

Chris simmance:
ones.

Hilik Haviv:
relationship

Chris simmance:
But you know, you say yes to

Hilik Haviv:
is

Chris simmance:
quite a lot of things.

Hilik Haviv:
taking a turn.

Chris simmance:
And what

Hilik Haviv:
And

Chris simmance:
I do with

Hilik Haviv:
then

Chris simmance:
the agencies

Hilik Haviv:
you also

Chris simmance:
that

Hilik Haviv:
realize

Chris simmance:
I work with

Hilik Haviv:
who’s

Chris simmance:
is often

Hilik Haviv:
really

Chris simmance:
we

Hilik Haviv:
a

Chris simmance:
put

Hilik Haviv:
friend

Chris simmance:
in place

Hilik Haviv:
and who’s there

Chris simmance:
some

Hilik Haviv:
just

Chris simmance:
lead

Hilik Haviv:
because

Chris simmance:
scoring

Hilik Haviv:
they need you.

Chris simmance:
metrics that

Hilik Haviv:
But

Chris simmance:
all

Hilik Haviv:
there are

Chris simmance:
new

Hilik Haviv:
ups and

Chris simmance:
leads

Hilik Haviv:
downs and you

Chris simmance:
need

Hilik Haviv:
see

Chris simmance:
to

Hilik Haviv:
if

Chris simmance:
meet

Hilik Haviv:
it brings

Chris simmance:
a certain

Hilik Haviv:
more arguments,

Chris simmance:
threshold.

Hilik Haviv:
if it brings more

Chris simmance:
And then we retrospectively

Hilik Haviv:
questionable

Chris simmance:
do lead scoring.

Hilik Haviv:
behavior,

Chris simmance:
on old clients,

Hilik Haviv:
then you

Chris simmance:
including

Hilik Haviv:
understand. And

Chris simmance:
ones

Hilik Haviv:
at

Chris simmance:
that

Hilik Haviv:
some

Chris simmance:
have lost.

Hilik Haviv:
point I realize, you

Chris simmance:
So

Hilik Haviv:
know,

Chris simmance:
that

Hilik Haviv:
at

Chris simmance:
we

Hilik Haviv:
the

Chris simmance:
can

Hilik Haviv:
end of

Chris simmance:
look

Hilik Haviv:
the day,

Chris simmance:
at

Hilik Haviv:
I’m

Chris simmance:
whether

Hilik Haviv:
the

Chris simmance:
there’s

Hilik Haviv:
service

Chris simmance:
a trend.

Hilik Haviv:
provider.

Chris simmance:
So we’re using data

Hilik Haviv:
And

Chris simmance:
a little bit,

Hilik Haviv:
if I don’t bring the

Chris simmance:
but

Hilik Haviv:
results,

Chris simmance:
we look to see if there’s

Hilik Haviv:
they’re

Chris simmance:
a trend

Hilik Haviv:
going to shake

Chris simmance:
and if there’s

Hilik Haviv:
hands

Chris simmance:
a nice

Hilik Haviv:
and go.

Chris simmance:
trend, then we know,

Hilik Haviv:
Even if we’ll stay

Chris simmance:
okay,

Hilik Haviv:
friends later,

Chris simmance:
the

Hilik Haviv:
we’re

Chris simmance:
lead

Hilik Haviv:
not

Chris simmance:
scoring

Hilik Haviv:
going to do

Chris simmance:
needs

Hilik Haviv:
business

Chris simmance:
to moderate

Hilik Haviv:
together.

Chris simmance:
slightly because the future clients will then be more likely to stay longer or less likely to be a pain in the ass. So that’s a really big success to be able to keep your clients and keep your clients happy, especially. Sometimes it’s not just about results that keeps clients, isn’t it? You know, you keep them happy, you show them that you care, you show them that you know what you’re doing. You can’t control the click at the end of the day.

Hilik Haviv:
As the business, not just as the relationship, track everything. Track every little thing. Connect all the channels together. And again, that goes to anything online and everything internally in the office. But if we’re talking about the customers… Track everything from their website, every little page, every activity, from their social media, any network separately, any email that we’re sending, any separate email. So again, we can go to segmentations a lot deeper and really it’s different between service companies and e-commerce companies. But track everything

Chris simmance:
Hmm.

Hilik Haviv:
and use the data to understand your performance. and to improve your performance and to see if you are

Chris simmance:
Hmm.

Hilik Haviv:
efficient. And the same thing I said goes internally. If we’re talking to agencies, owners and not the business or not the customers. So the owners track everything within the office of your team, how they do, what they do, is it efficient or not? And that’s how, and this is something I didn’t do at the beginning. We didn’t, we didn’t start as a data marketing company.

Chris simmance:
Yeah, well, this is the key thing though. It’s the shake hands and go, rather than the go

Hilik Haviv:
So,

Chris simmance:
without

Hilik Haviv:
I

Chris simmance:
the

Hilik Haviv:
literally

Chris simmance:
shaking hands.

Hilik Haviv:
got the

Chris simmance:
So

Hilik Haviv:
biggest

Chris simmance:
if you

Hilik Haviv:
client

Chris simmance:
could go back nine years,

Hilik Haviv:
I had,

Chris simmance:
knowing everything you

Hilik Haviv:
let’s

Chris simmance:
know

Hilik Haviv:
say,

Chris simmance:
now,

Hilik Haviv:
in the first

Chris simmance:
you

Hilik Haviv:
three

Chris simmance:
jump

Hilik Haviv:
or four

Chris simmance:
in your

Hilik Haviv:
years.

Chris simmance:
time machine

Hilik Haviv:
I got it in the first

Chris simmance:
and

Hilik Haviv:
week

Chris simmance:
you can speak to yourself.

Hilik Haviv:
when we

Chris simmance:
What

Hilik Haviv:
just

Chris simmance:
one piece

Hilik Haviv:
opened

Chris simmance:
of advice

Hilik Haviv:
the office.

Chris simmance:
do you think you’d give

Hilik Haviv:
So,

Chris simmance:
yourself

Hilik Haviv:
I

Chris simmance:
just

Hilik Haviv:
did some

Chris simmance:
as you’re

Hilik Haviv:
freelance

Chris simmance:
starting out?

Hilik Haviv:
work before I opened the office. The reason I opened the office is because I needed help. I had more customers

Chris simmance:
Mm.

Hilik Haviv:
and

Chris simmance:
Mm.

Hilik Haviv:
I needed more people on my team. But once we opened the office in the first week, walked in a customer that was or became the biggest customer for the next few years. And yeah, and that’s great. Everything’s smooth, right? So you focus on different things. Sometimes it’s the wrong things for your growth and you have to be aware of that. Let me use the word habit instead of a toy because again we still do work at the office and

Chris simmance:
Mm.

Hilik Haviv:
we’re growing in a certain way but what you refer to is something that

Chris simmance:
Yeah.

Hilik Haviv:
I think a lot of agencies experience

Chris simmance:
You’re too busy

Hilik Haviv:
at the beginning,

Chris simmance:
cruising

Hilik Haviv:
you work

Chris simmance:
the

Hilik Haviv:
hard to get a client,

Chris simmance:
upward curve, enjoying the job

Hilik Haviv:
and once

Chris simmance:
and

Hilik Haviv:
you get it,

Chris simmance:
getting

Hilik Haviv:
you work

Chris simmance:
excited

Hilik Haviv:
hard

Chris simmance:
about

Hilik Haviv:
to maintain

Chris simmance:
each new challenge,

Hilik Haviv:
it,

Chris simmance:
aren’t you?

Hilik Haviv:
but you kinda neglect getting more and more leads and more clients at the same time. And that’s the part of hands-on, or maybe you don’t have a bigger team, or you don’t have the budget really to do all these things. So you focus on keeping that big client, or keeping those few clients at the beginning happy. But you forget to grow and then when something happens or one of them wants to go or anything, you know, it just, then you find yourself in it almost at the beginning again, you have to rebuild again.

Chris simmance:
Yeah. Hmm. Yeah. And, and this is so I’ve noticed this having spoken to so many agency people, just in the running of this podcast, but also the ones I work with. And I think of it like,

Hilik Haviv:
So

Chris simmance:
you know, shiny things

Hilik Haviv:
one thing

Chris simmance:
shiny

Hilik Haviv:
that

Chris simmance:
thing,

Hilik Haviv:
I did at the beginning

Chris simmance:
and you jump

Hilik Haviv:
is I tried

Chris simmance:
between

Hilik Haviv:
to go to

Chris simmance:
the

Hilik Haviv:
a

Chris simmance:
thing

Hilik Haviv:
different

Chris simmance:
that you’re that’s exciting

Hilik Haviv:
areas

Chris simmance:
or really

Hilik Haviv:
within the marketing.

Chris simmance:
provide some value

Hilik Haviv:
One

Chris simmance:
right

Hilik Haviv:
thing

Chris simmance:
now.

Hilik Haviv:
that I understood

Chris simmance:
And then the next

Hilik Haviv:
right

Chris simmance:
one

Hilik Haviv:
at

Chris simmance:
and

Hilik Haviv:
the

Chris simmance:
the

Hilik Haviv:
beginning

Chris simmance:
next one, and you forget

Hilik Haviv:
is

Chris simmance:
to

Hilik Haviv:
that

Chris simmance:
actually

Hilik Haviv:
there

Chris simmance:
build

Hilik Haviv:
is

Chris simmance:
a business,

Hilik Haviv:
no one channel

Chris simmance:
because

Hilik Haviv:
that

Chris simmance:
it’s not

Hilik Haviv:
will

Chris simmance:
a

Hilik Haviv:
bring

Chris simmance:
business

Hilik Haviv:
you the success.

Chris simmance:
until you can’t

Hilik Haviv:
And

Chris simmance:
until

Hilik Haviv:
this

Chris simmance:
you don’t

Hilik Haviv:
is

Chris simmance:
need

Hilik Haviv:
a

Chris simmance:
to

Hilik Haviv:
mistake

Chris simmance:
be in it.

Hilik Haviv:
that I saw from

Chris simmance:
Um,

Hilik Haviv:
many of the

Chris simmance:
it’s

Hilik Haviv:
customers

Chris simmance:
a, it’s

Hilik Haviv:
that

Chris simmance:
a,

Hilik Haviv:
came

Chris simmance:
it’s

Hilik Haviv:
to us

Chris simmance:
a,

Hilik Haviv:
in the first

Chris simmance:
um,

Hilik Haviv:
few years.

Chris simmance:
a toy

Hilik Haviv:
When they come

Chris simmance:
until

Hilik Haviv:
to

Chris simmance:
you

Hilik Haviv:
the office

Chris simmance:
want,

Hilik Haviv:
and they

Chris simmance:
until

Hilik Haviv:
ask

Chris simmance:
you

Hilik Haviv:
you

Chris simmance:
exit.

Hilik Haviv:
to do, let’s say their Facebook or Facebook advertising, but they don’t think Google advertising, they don’t think Instagram or LinkedIn, today even TikTok, they don’t think email marketing, they don’t think SEO, they think one specific thing because of any reason, right? And the same thing

Chris simmance:
Hmm.

Hilik Haviv:
somebody else can come say, I want Google advertising, but they don’t think YouTube advertising might be a force and they don’t think, you know, email marketing to follow up. And they don’t think about up sales. And they don’t think about follow up within customers that are lost or anything like that. So something that I understood is that, and what we call omni-channel marketing, is that there is no one channel. So even though there are endless possibilities right now, and if I go to the extreme, the other side, you don’t want somebody to come and say, I want you to take care of everything. because

Chris simmance:
Is there something

Hilik Haviv:
they

Chris simmance:
that

Hilik Haviv:
really need

Chris simmance:
you did

Hilik Haviv:
an unlimited

Chris simmance:
relatively

Hilik Haviv:
budget

Chris simmance:
early

Hilik Haviv:
for

Chris simmance:
in

Hilik Haviv:
it.

Chris simmance:
the

Hilik Haviv:
But

Chris simmance:
agency’s

Hilik Haviv:
there needs to

Chris simmance:
life

Hilik Haviv:
be multiple channels that you work

Chris simmance:
that you

Hilik Haviv:
on. So

Chris simmance:
kind

Hilik Haviv:
what

Chris simmance:
of

Hilik Haviv:
I did,

Chris simmance:
stuck to?

Hilik Haviv:
training

Chris simmance:
It’s

Hilik Haviv:
my

Chris simmance:
been

Hilik Haviv:
team

Chris simmance:
something that was

Hilik Haviv:
and

Chris simmance:
successful,

Hilik Haviv:
myself

Chris simmance:
but

Hilik Haviv:
as well,

Chris simmance:
you really

Hilik Haviv:
is learning

Chris simmance:
realised

Hilik Haviv:
something

Chris simmance:
this

Hilik Haviv:
new

Chris simmance:
is our kind

Hilik Haviv:
every

Chris simmance:
of secret

Hilik Haviv:
single

Chris simmance:
source.

Hilik Haviv:
month.

Chris simmance:
What have you…

Hilik Haviv:
And that means

Chris simmance:
what’s

Hilik Haviv:
if

Chris simmance:
been

Hilik Haviv:
I’m

Chris simmance:
a…

Hilik Haviv:
an expert in

Chris simmance:
I’m holding

Hilik Haviv:
Google

Chris simmance:
on to that

Hilik Haviv:
advertising,

Chris simmance:
and I’m going to keep doing this.

Hilik Haviv:
now I want to know the Facebook platform. Now I want to know… TikTok platform now I want to know email marketing and when I say I want to know it’s not just going to you know Give me a demo. I’m the one who I’m doing a lot of demos. So I’m the one who wants to really understand a software that is Beneficial for us and Google by the way Google advertising that’s a software if you want So I went into this one and I trained my team

Chris simmance:
Hmm.

Hilik Haviv:
to learn something new So eventually we have expertise in multiple areas And eventually, if we take you a few years forward, that was very, very beneficial.

Chris simmance:
Mm-hmm.

Hilik Haviv:
That’s true. And you have to understand your team to read them in the right way to understand what fits

Chris simmance:
Hmm.

Hilik Haviv:
for each one of them. So you can send your media buyer to copywriting training if they’re not really into writing. Some people generate great ideas in their mind, but they don’t really implement it in writing. So you have to read your team and then fit that next skill within their character.

Chris simmance:
Yeah, well, you’re building an asset, a knowledge asset internally. And, you know, and the good thing is, you know, when a member of staff leaves and go somewhere else, they only have good things to say, because they got that new job because of how good they were in their previous job and how much you let them learn and things, but you got so much value

Hilik Haviv:
That’s

Chris simmance:
out of

Hilik Haviv:
true.

Chris simmance:
those people because they were

Hilik Haviv:
Again

Chris simmance:
doing something

Hilik Haviv:
another…

Chris simmance:
they loved, they were doing something they were good at and

Hilik Haviv:
the

Chris simmance:
like,

Hilik Haviv:
conversations with

Chris simmance:
people

Hilik Haviv:
the customers

Chris simmance:
feel

Hilik Haviv:
and we’re

Chris simmance:
good

Hilik Haviv:
learning

Chris simmance:
when they’ve

Hilik Haviv:
from the

Chris simmance:
learned

Hilik Haviv:
mistakes

Chris simmance:
something,

Hilik Haviv:
on their, or

Chris simmance:
when there’s a challenge that’s been overcome.

Hilik Haviv:
whatever they’re

Chris simmance:
You don’t

Hilik Haviv:
asking

Chris simmance:
feel

Hilik Haviv:
us to

Chris simmance:
great

Hilik Haviv:
do, right?

Chris simmance:
when you’re learning

Hilik Haviv:
One thing

Chris simmance:
something

Hilik Haviv:
that

Chris simmance:
that

Hilik Haviv:
I saw

Chris simmance:
you don’t

Hilik Haviv:
over the

Chris simmance:
want

Hilik Haviv:
years

Chris simmance:
to do.

Hilik Haviv:
is companies are trying

Chris simmance:
You know, if you think

Hilik Haviv:
to

Chris simmance:
back to

Hilik Haviv:
save

Chris simmance:
school,

Hilik Haviv:
on their marketing.

Chris simmance:
you think.

Hilik Haviv:
So, and that became one of the main things for us is that we want your marketing to be an income and not an expense. We’re not saving on marketing because marketing is the one that needs to bring you return, right? So if you’re saving on marketing, it means something is wrong. You’re not generating sales. And what I do, I take that mindset or that sentence and says, or that statement, and I say, I’m not saving on marketing. And this doesn’t mean the Google budget. This means also my team. So my

Chris simmance:
Yeah.

Hilik Haviv:
team are marketers

Chris simmance:
And that comes

Hilik Haviv:
at the

Chris simmance:
again

Hilik Haviv:
end of the day, whether they’re data

Chris simmance:
at the

Hilik Haviv:
analysts

Chris simmance:
certain expense

Hilik Haviv:
or

Chris simmance:
of

Hilik Haviv:
media

Chris simmance:
time

Hilik Haviv:
buyers

Chris simmance:
and resource on your side,

Hilik Haviv:
or, or

Chris simmance:
but

Hilik Haviv:
even

Chris simmance:
it

Hilik Haviv:
a Google

Chris simmance:
pays

Hilik Haviv:
specialist,

Chris simmance:
itself

Hilik Haviv:
right?

Chris simmance:
back. And

Hilik Haviv:
But

Chris simmance:
this is something

Hilik Haviv:
they’re

Chris simmance:
that

Hilik Haviv:
marketers at

Chris simmance:
a

Hilik Haviv:
the

Chris simmance:
lot of

Hilik Haviv:
end.

Chris simmance:
agency leaders

Hilik Haviv:
And I want

Chris simmance:
miss.

Hilik Haviv:
to

Chris simmance:
They, you know, they

Hilik Haviv:
invest

Chris simmance:
think, oh,

Hilik Haviv:
in

Chris simmance:
I don’t

Hilik Haviv:
the marketing

Chris simmance:
have the time for

Hilik Haviv:
and

Chris simmance:
that.

Hilik Haviv:
I invest

Chris simmance:
I’ll give them

Hilik Haviv:
in them. So eventually

Chris simmance:
the PDF

Hilik Haviv:
they bring also

Chris simmance:
guide

Hilik Haviv:
better results.

Chris simmance:
and let them learn this thing, because it will take half an hour to read that rather than four hours for training or over the course of several weeks. And it’s a, like a, a lost it’s a sunk cost fallacy, you think you’re spending on their on their salaries, but

Hilik Haviv:
So

Chris simmance:
actually

Hilik Haviv:
biggest

Chris simmance:
you

Hilik Haviv:
shit,

Chris simmance:
need to be spending on their brains

Hilik Haviv:
that was,

Chris simmance:
as much as giving them the money.

Hilik Haviv:
if you

Chris simmance:
And

Hilik Haviv:
take us a few years

Chris simmance:
as something

Hilik Haviv:
back, we were

Chris simmance:
you get

Hilik Haviv:
focusing

Chris simmance:
so much more from

Hilik Haviv:
on

Chris simmance:
people who

Hilik Haviv:
content.

Chris simmance:
feel valued and the good

Hilik Haviv:
So we

Chris simmance:
way

Hilik Haviv:
were

Chris simmance:
to show

Hilik Haviv:
content

Chris simmance:
value

Hilik Haviv:
creators.

Chris simmance:
isn’t just giving them cash.

Hilik Haviv:
That’s how the beginning of HVMA, in the first few years, content creators. And we created any type of content, from graphic to videos to writing content, to anything goes to your website, to your social media. And we were pretty good at it, and everything was good. And you know how people say content is the king, right? I a little bit disagree with that. I obviously think data is the king. because data is the most valuable asset on earth. But what happened is at some point, and that was somewhere in the middle, we started to realize that content is nice, but it doesn’t necessarily bring you sales. So you might have a great video, you’ll get a lot of followers maybe if it goes viral, and we had some viral videos over the years, but it’s not necessarily translating into sales if you don’t send them emails, if you don’t really retarget them, if you don’t… you know, really understand and give them relevant offers. So I think that was my biggest mistake is that we focus too much on content instead of focusing on the sales part and driving traffic to your channels all the time. And

Chris simmance:
Yeah, absolutely.

Hilik Haviv:
at some point we

Chris simmance:
Absolutely.

Hilik Haviv:
stopped providing

Chris simmance:
So just talked

Hilik Haviv:
that

Chris simmance:
about

Hilik Haviv:
service

Chris simmance:
a thing that

Hilik Haviv:
of

Chris simmance:
you’ve done

Hilik Haviv:
operating

Chris simmance:
well

Hilik Haviv:
your Facebook

Chris simmance:
that you

Hilik Haviv:
page,

Chris simmance:
know, is

Hilik Haviv:
operating

Chris simmance:
a big

Hilik Haviv:
your

Chris simmance:
part

Hilik Haviv:
Instagram

Chris simmance:
of the business.

Hilik Haviv:
page. That

Chris simmance:
What have you

Hilik Haviv:
became

Chris simmance:
done

Hilik Haviv:
just

Chris simmance:
that’s,

Hilik Haviv:
a department

Chris simmance:
you know,

Hilik Haviv:
instead

Chris simmance:
not

Hilik Haviv:
of

Chris simmance:
so

Hilik Haviv:
the

Chris simmance:
good?

Hilik Haviv:
main work that

Chris simmance:
What

Hilik Haviv:
we

Chris simmance:
happened?

Hilik Haviv:
do. We shifted

Chris simmance:
What was your

Hilik Haviv:
into

Chris simmance:
biggest?

Hilik Haviv:
campaigns.

Chris simmance:
Ah, shit.

Hilik Haviv:
And at that point, we also went a lot into e-commerce because that’s measurable. So we can actually create campaigns for you. We’ll give you some things just for the campaign to be consistent, to be on your channels, but we’re not gonna operate your Facebook on daily basis like we did before. We don’t care about the content that you upload on your Facebook. Of course, it needs to be consistent with the campaign. But we’ve focused on the campaign. We focus on the results, on the KPIs, and have to make sure that at the end of the day, you pay us X, we’re bringing X times three,

Chris simmance:
Mmm.

Hilik Haviv:
X times four. That’s what we want. And that’s what you want to hear as our customer. Everything is measurable,

Chris simmance:
Yeah, yeah.

Hilik Haviv:
measurable results. Here’s the data. Here’s why something works here. Why it doesn’t. So, well, that’s a very open question. Right, right. So because I already said track everything and that would be maybe the main thing, but I’ll say if you just open a new agency

Chris simmance:
Mmm.

Hilik Haviv:
right now, think about your plan and which type of customers are you going to get and based on this one, build your team. So don’t just go to say, okay, I need a social media manager and I need a data analyst and I need a media buyer because your customers or the one that will come through your door tomorrow might need something else and now you’re missing the person or you’re giving a teammate a test that they’re not really comfortable with and they’re not going to generate the great results. So really think you’re going e-commerce, you want a copywriter, you want a media buyer. You want a web designer who can create a landing page very quick or up sales or build a funnel for you. So really think which way you’re going

Chris simmance:
Mm-hmm.

Hilik Haviv:
to go. And you can tell that by the way I’m going to advertise or the way I’m going to present my company. And

Chris simmance:
Yeah,

Hilik Haviv:
based on this

Chris simmance:
yeah, yeah.

Hilik Haviv:
one, build a team. If you don’t have a big budget to take 15 people right at the beginning, which most agencies don’t, choose carefully the positions. and try to bring specialists to each position.

Chris simmance:
Yeah.

Hilik Haviv:
So don’t bring one person, social media manager,

Chris simmance:
And with

Hilik Haviv:
let

Chris simmance:
the data,

Hilik Haviv:
them write

Chris simmance:
you can prove it, which is great.

Hilik Haviv:
content, let them do SEO, let them do the advertising, let them do this and that. That’s just gonna bring average results.

Chris simmance:
Yeah, totally

Hilik Haviv:
Bring somebody

Chris simmance:
love

Hilik Haviv:
who’s

Chris simmance:
that.

Hilik Haviv:
a specialist. I prefer

Chris simmance:
So

Hilik Haviv:
to bring

Chris simmance:
if someone’s

Hilik Haviv:
a Google

Chris simmance:
just

Hilik Haviv:
advertising

Chris simmance:
listening to this

Hilik Haviv:
specialist

Chris simmance:
now and they’re thinking of starting

Hilik Haviv:
and let

Chris simmance:
their

Hilik Haviv:
them do

Chris simmance:
own

Hilik Haviv:
Google

Chris simmance:
agency,

Hilik Haviv:
advertising

Chris simmance:
what one piece of advice

Hilik Haviv:
and not

Chris simmance:
would

Hilik Haviv:
something

Chris simmance:
you give

Hilik Haviv:
else

Chris simmance:
them?

Hilik Haviv:
because that will bring me better success.

Chris simmance:
Yeah, you’ve got one piece of advice, though.

Hilik Haviv:
I tell you something, there’s one more thing that I’ll add to that. Over the years we changed and now we present it. There’s marketing and there’s professional marketing. So you can go hire somebody just because they’re cheaper in price per hour or something and they will do some marketing for you, but it’s not going to be professional marketing. There is, you know, today every teenager can post. Content on Facebook. You don’t really need an agency for it. You don’t need a social media manager for it in the same matter We say anybody with an arm can throw a football, but not everybody can do it professionally So just make sure if you want to get the right results take a professional build the right team and then look for the success

Chris simmance:
Mm.

Hilik Haviv:
Thank you for having me, I appreciate it.

Chris simmance:
everyone who’s listening to this, listen to this man. He knew he knows what he’s talking about. Thank you. Mm-hmm. Correct, very much so. And for those of you listening in the UK, we have a version of that that is if you have not everyone who has an arm can throw a rugby ball. Thank you so much for coming on the podcast. Lovely to speak to you. And in our next episode, we’ll be speaking with another agency leader to hear their story and the lessons they learned along the way. Thanks very much for listening.

Chris simmance:
Thanks, VoiceOverGuy. Hello, hello, hello, everyone. Hello, Hillik, how are you doing?

Hilik Haviv:
Doing pretty good happy to be here

Chris simmance:
It’s very nice to have you on the podcast all the way from sunny USA. Whereabouts in the US are you?

Hilik Haviv:
Atlanta, Georgia.

Chris simmance:
Atlanta in Georgia.

Hilik Haviv:
Atlanta, Georgia, yes, definitely

Chris simmance:
Oh,

Hilik Haviv:
studying, yes.

Chris simmance:
it’s certainly I was going to say it’s definitely sunny, definitely sunny there. And so HVMA marketing, am I getting that right?

Hilik Haviv:
Yes, that is correct. HVMA Marketing, we are a data-driven marketing agency based in Atlanta, Georgia. And. Yeah, I’ve been here for a long time and looking forward for many more years.

Chris simmance:
And forgive me, where are you from originally?

Hilik Haviv:
All the way from the Holy Land of Israel

Chris simmance:
I was going to say because Hillick doesn’t sound very Georgian.

Hilik Haviv:
Right, yeah, I spoke with my parents about this next time they gotta give me a name that is easier to pronounce

Chris simmance:
Yeah, you’re good. I think we’re just about cracking it. I’ve watched a couple of the videos on your website prior to recording. I saw some of that data stuff coming out in there. I was doing dashboards and trying to make stories out of information and things like that. It’s a real skill set to be able to see these things, see the pin inside that haystack.

Hilik Haviv:
True, and like I said, we are a data-driven marketing agency. And what we do mainly is we help companies or our customers use the data they already have on their channels, whatever they collect. and then translate it into traffic and sales.

Chris simmance:
Yeah.

Hilik Haviv:
And when you say pin those ideas, I think that’s one of the main strengths or maybe why we are different than

Chris simmance:
Mmm.

Hilik Haviv:
other agencies is because of the mindset that we come with. Because the way that we try to combine data from one place to another, from one channel to another, the way we track things and the way the reports, if you’ll see the reports internally in the office, you’ll… you’ll think it’s craziness sometimes of the things that we’re looking to find

Chris simmance:
Yeah.

Hilik Haviv:
with data, a little bit different than the basic reports. And I say basic is not necessarily literally basic. I mean, we always go with advanced report, but even within the advanced reports, we’re always going to look for something that is a little bit deeper to understand not only the customer, the target audience, the product, the performance. And we do the same, by the way, with our, with our team. also

Chris simmance:
Hmm.

Hilik Haviv:
to understand each one and their performance.

Chris simmance:
I mean, that’s a really mature way of running an agency because I mean, there are, I’ve done the research having, I mean, I sell to agencies and naturally I’ve done some market research. There are about 800,000 English language first speaking agencies and the vast majority of them barely use barely scratch the surface when it comes to data. So it is a, it’s nice to actually, like I say, I’ve seen some of the videos, so I know you guys know. really what you’re talking about. How long has the agency been running for?

Hilik Haviv:
We started in 2014, so about nine years now.

Chris simmance:
And how have the nine years been? Has it been smooth sailing? Has it been choppy waters?

Hilik Haviv:
Oh, it’s a roller coaster.

Chris simmance:
Yeah,

Hilik Haviv:
Rollercoaster.

Chris simmance:
no agency is complete without roller coaster rides daily, right?

Hilik Haviv:
Here’s the thing that I’ve learned. If you don’t make any mistakes on the way, you’re never going to go to the next level because you got to learn from something. So,

Chris simmance:
Mmm.

Hilik Haviv:
over the, we had a very, very smooth start. Everything was going very well, you know, and me personally, when something goes very well, take the pessimistic part of my brain,

Chris simmance:
Mm.

Hilik Haviv:
something will balance it. So I’m the guy, by the way, that likes to balance everything in life in general, not only in the agency and the work. So something has to balance at some point when everything goes smooth.

Chris simmance:
Hmm.

Hilik Haviv:
And I’m not, again, I say the pessimistic, but in a business way of running the agency, I gotta be prepared and not to get a big hit when something like this happens.

Chris simmance:
Yeah.

Hilik Haviv:
By the way, and we

Chris simmance:
Yeah.

Hilik Haviv:
can speak about that, that was one of my biggest mistakes. in the past. We can speak about that as well.

Chris simmance:
We, I’m definitely going to ask you.

Hilik Haviv:
Yes, so you got to be prepared and at some point you get that hit when you go down in the rollercoaster ride.

Chris simmance:
Hmm.

Hilik Haviv:
You got

Chris simmance:
Yeah.

Hilik Haviv:
to be prepared for it and you got to be able to pick back up.

Chris simmance:
Exactly. So what do you think has been one of the biggest successes that you’ve seen in the last nine years of running the agency? I know there’s been ups and there’s been downs naturally, but what’s been something that’s been a big success that you can think of?

Hilik Haviv:
So what I consider the biggest success for us as an agency, And again, I told you we’re a little bit different, right? And we’re thinking a little bit different. So I’m not gonna tell you, hey, we did eight figures or seven figures or anything like that, even though we are very concentrating on results. But I think the biggest success of the agency is the fact that we have long-term customers. And especially in a business where you have to generate results, when you have long-term customers, that means you do something right. Because there’s not a lot of change. Many of the customers, especially in the past, were just starting with marketing. We’re not taking startups, but their marketing was either not successful, so they’re looking for a different agency, or they didn’t have a budget and now they’re scaling. So eventually if somebody stays with you for long, even if on the way there are also ups and downs within the marketing, because you’re not going to do the same great result every month. But within a quarter, within a year when you measure things, the fact that customers are staying with us for long term, that’s a big success for me.

Chris simmance:
Hmm. Yeah. And it means you’ve done your own marketing right. It means you’ve done your own sales right and your onboarding right, because they’re the right people before you even start.

Hilik Haviv:
Right. And that’s something that at the beginning you can’t really do.

Chris simmance:
Mm.

Hilik Haviv:
You can’t really decide I want that customer or the other. You just take pretty much whatever comes to your way, right? Or whatever,

Chris simmance:
See

Hilik Haviv:
whoever

Chris simmance:
you.

Hilik Haviv:
knocks on your door.

Chris simmance:
Mmm. Hmm.

Hilik Haviv:
It’s Chris, it’s only about results. Everybody gonna stay with you until a certain

Chris simmance:
Hmm.

Hilik Haviv:
point. If you don’t bring them the results, they’re gonna shake hands and go. And that’s something that I’ve learned over the years.

Chris simmance:
Mm.

Hilik Haviv:
that I had some clients. So here’s the thing, I’m the guy who really, I care about the job that I do. Okay, not beside the fact that I like what I do, but I care about it. And at the beginning, when I was even less in leadership and less in management position, I was like a lot more hands-on, right?

Chris simmance:
Yeah,

Hilik Haviv:
But I

Chris simmance:
exactly.

Hilik Haviv:
was the one,

Chris simmance:
You’ve

Hilik Haviv:
because

Chris simmance:
set the

Hilik Haviv:
it’s

Chris simmance:
bar high,

Hilik Haviv:
my agency,

Chris simmance:
so you need

Hilik Haviv:
I was

Chris simmance:
to

Hilik Haviv:
the

Chris simmance:
maintain

Hilik Haviv:
one that really

Chris simmance:
the standard

Hilik Haviv:
connects

Chris simmance:
that

Hilik Haviv:
with

Chris simmance:
you’ve set

Hilik Haviv:
the

Chris simmance:
up

Hilik Haviv:
customers.

Chris simmance:
up front.

Hilik Haviv:
And some

Chris simmance:
And

Hilik Haviv:
of

Chris simmance:
with

Hilik Haviv:
them

Chris simmance:
it,

Hilik Haviv:
were my friends,

Chris simmance:
to your point a

Hilik Haviv:
friends

Chris simmance:
minute ago

Hilik Haviv:
I’m

Chris simmance:
about,

Hilik Haviv:
talking

Chris simmance:
you

Hilik Haviv:
about

Chris simmance:
know, you,

Hilik Haviv:
outside of work.

Chris simmance:
when you start,

Hilik Haviv:
But at some

Chris simmance:
you don’t

Hilik Haviv:
point,

Chris simmance:
know who

Hilik Haviv:
if

Chris simmance:
to

Hilik Haviv:
you

Chris simmance:
take

Hilik Haviv:
don’t

Chris simmance:
on,

Hilik Haviv:
bring

Chris simmance:
and sometimes

Hilik Haviv:
the results,

Chris simmance:
you take the wrong

Hilik Haviv:
the

Chris simmance:
ones.

Hilik Haviv:
relationship

Chris simmance:
But you know, you say yes to

Hilik Haviv:
is

Chris simmance:
quite a lot of things.

Hilik Haviv:
taking a turn.

Chris simmance:
And what

Hilik Haviv:
And

Chris simmance:
I do with

Hilik Haviv:
then

Chris simmance:
the agencies

Hilik Haviv:
you also

Chris simmance:
that

Hilik Haviv:
realize

Chris simmance:
I work with

Hilik Haviv:
who’s

Chris simmance:
is often

Hilik Haviv:
really

Chris simmance:
we

Hilik Haviv:
a

Chris simmance:
put

Hilik Haviv:
friend

Chris simmance:
in place

Hilik Haviv:
and who’s there

Chris simmance:
some

Hilik Haviv:
just

Chris simmance:
lead

Hilik Haviv:
because

Chris simmance:
scoring

Hilik Haviv:
they need you.

Chris simmance:
metrics that

Hilik Haviv:
But

Chris simmance:
all

Hilik Haviv:
there are

Chris simmance:
new

Hilik Haviv:
ups and

Chris simmance:
leads

Hilik Haviv:
downs and you

Chris simmance:
need

Hilik Haviv:
see

Chris simmance:
to

Hilik Haviv:
if

Chris simmance:
meet

Hilik Haviv:
it brings

Chris simmance:
a certain

Hilik Haviv:
more arguments,

Chris simmance:
threshold.

Hilik Haviv:
if it brings more

Chris simmance:
And then we retrospectively

Hilik Haviv:
questionable

Chris simmance:
do lead scoring.

Hilik Haviv:
behavior,

Chris simmance:
on old clients,

Hilik Haviv:
then you

Chris simmance:
including

Hilik Haviv:
understand. And

Chris simmance:
ones

Hilik Haviv:
at

Chris simmance:
that

Hilik Haviv:
some

Chris simmance:
have lost.

Hilik Haviv:
point I realize, you

Chris simmance:
So

Hilik Haviv:
know,

Chris simmance:
that

Hilik Haviv:
at

Chris simmance:
we

Hilik Haviv:
the

Chris simmance:
can

Hilik Haviv:
end of

Chris simmance:
look

Hilik Haviv:
the day,

Chris simmance:
at

Hilik Haviv:
I’m

Chris simmance:
whether

Hilik Haviv:
the

Chris simmance:
there’s

Hilik Haviv:
service

Chris simmance:
a trend.

Hilik Haviv:
provider.

Chris simmance:
So we’re using data

Hilik Haviv:
And

Chris simmance:
a little bit,

Hilik Haviv:
if I don’t bring the

Chris simmance:
but

Hilik Haviv:
results,

Chris simmance:
we look to see if there’s

Hilik Haviv:
they’re

Chris simmance:
a trend

Hilik Haviv:
going to shake

Chris simmance:
and if there’s

Hilik Haviv:
hands

Chris simmance:
a nice

Hilik Haviv:
and go.

Chris simmance:
trend, then we know,

Hilik Haviv:
Even if we’ll stay

Chris simmance:
okay,

Hilik Haviv:
friends later,

Chris simmance:
the

Hilik Haviv:
we’re

Chris simmance:
lead

Hilik Haviv:
not

Chris simmance:
scoring

Hilik Haviv:
going to do

Chris simmance:
needs

Hilik Haviv:
business

Chris simmance:
to moderate

Hilik Haviv:
together.

Chris simmance:
slightly because the future clients will then be more likely to stay longer or less likely to be a pain in the ass. So that’s a really big success to be able to keep your clients and keep your clients happy, especially. Sometimes it’s not just about results that keeps clients, isn’t it? You know, you keep them happy, you show them that you care, you show them that you know what you’re doing. You can’t control the click at the end of the day.

Hilik Haviv:
As the business, not just as the relationship, track everything. Track every little thing. Connect all the channels together. And again, that goes to anything online and everything internally in the office. But if we’re talking about the customers… Track everything from their website, every little page, every activity, from their social media, any network separately, any email that we’re sending, any separate email. So again, we can go to segmentations a lot deeper and really it’s different between service companies and e-commerce companies. But track everything

Chris simmance:
Hmm.

Hilik Haviv:
and use the data to understand your performance. and to improve your performance and to see if you are

Chris simmance:
Hmm.

Hilik Haviv:
efficient. And the same thing I said goes internally. If we’re talking to agencies, owners and not the business or not the customers. So the owners track everything within the office of your team, how they do, what they do, is it efficient or not? And that’s how, and this is something I didn’t do at the beginning. We didn’t, we didn’t start as a data marketing company.

Chris simmance:
Yeah, well, this is the key thing though. It’s the shake hands and go, rather than the go

Hilik Haviv:
So,

Chris simmance:
without

Hilik Haviv:
I

Chris simmance:
the

Hilik Haviv:
literally

Chris simmance:
shaking hands.

Hilik Haviv:
got the

Chris simmance:
So

Hilik Haviv:
biggest

Chris simmance:
if you

Hilik Haviv:
client

Chris simmance:
could go back nine years,

Hilik Haviv:
I had,

Chris simmance:
knowing everything you

Hilik Haviv:
let’s

Chris simmance:
know

Hilik Haviv:
say,

Chris simmance:
now,

Hilik Haviv:
in the first

Chris simmance:
you

Hilik Haviv:
three

Chris simmance:
jump

Hilik Haviv:
or four

Chris simmance:
in your

Hilik Haviv:
years.

Chris simmance:
time machine

Hilik Haviv:
I got it in the first

Chris simmance:
and

Hilik Haviv:
week

Chris simmance:
you can speak to yourself.

Hilik Haviv:
when we

Chris simmance:
What

Hilik Haviv:
just

Chris simmance:
one piece

Hilik Haviv:
opened

Chris simmance:
of advice

Hilik Haviv:
the office.

Chris simmance:
do you think you’d give

Hilik Haviv:
So,

Chris simmance:
yourself

Hilik Haviv:
I

Chris simmance:
just

Hilik Haviv:
did some

Chris simmance:
as you’re

Hilik Haviv:
freelance

Chris simmance:
starting out?

Hilik Haviv:
work before I opened the office. The reason I opened the office is because I needed help. I had more customers

Chris simmance:
Mm.

Hilik Haviv:
and

Chris simmance:
Mm.

Hilik Haviv:
I needed more people on my team. But once we opened the office in the first week, walked in a customer that was or became the biggest customer for the next few years. And yeah, and that’s great. Everything’s smooth, right? So you focus on different things. Sometimes it’s the wrong things for your growth and you have to be aware of that. Let me use the word habit instead of a toy because again we still do work at the office and

Chris simmance:
Mm.

Hilik Haviv:
we’re growing in a certain way but what you refer to is something that

Chris simmance:
Yeah.

Hilik Haviv:
I think a lot of agencies experience

Chris simmance:
You’re too busy

Hilik Haviv:
at the beginning,

Chris simmance:
cruising

Hilik Haviv:
you work

Chris simmance:
the

Hilik Haviv:
hard to get a client,

Chris simmance:
upward curve, enjoying the job

Hilik Haviv:
and once

Chris simmance:
and

Hilik Haviv:
you get it,

Chris simmance:
getting

Hilik Haviv:
you work

Chris simmance:
excited

Hilik Haviv:
hard

Chris simmance:
about

Hilik Haviv:
to maintain

Chris simmance:
each new challenge,

Hilik Haviv:
it,

Chris simmance:
aren’t you?

Hilik Haviv:
but you kinda neglect getting more and more leads and more clients at the same time. And that’s the part of hands-on, or maybe you don’t have a bigger team, or you don’t have the budget really to do all these things. So you focus on keeping that big client, or keeping those few clients at the beginning happy. But you forget to grow and then when something happens or one of them wants to go or anything, you know, it just, then you find yourself in it almost at the beginning again, you have to rebuild again.

Chris simmance:
Yeah. Hmm. Yeah. And, and this is so I’ve noticed this having spoken to so many agency people, just in the running of this podcast, but also the ones I work with. And I think of it like,

Hilik Haviv:
So

Chris simmance:
you know, shiny things

Hilik Haviv:
one thing

Chris simmance:
shiny

Hilik Haviv:
that

Chris simmance:
thing,

Hilik Haviv:
I did at the beginning

Chris simmance:
and you jump

Hilik Haviv:
is I tried

Chris simmance:
between

Hilik Haviv:
to go to

Chris simmance:
the

Hilik Haviv:
a

Chris simmance:
thing

Hilik Haviv:
different

Chris simmance:
that you’re that’s exciting

Hilik Haviv:
areas

Chris simmance:
or really

Hilik Haviv:
within the marketing.

Chris simmance:
provide some value

Hilik Haviv:
One

Chris simmance:
right

Hilik Haviv:
thing

Chris simmance:
now.

Hilik Haviv:
that I understood

Chris simmance:
And then the next

Hilik Haviv:
right

Chris simmance:
one

Hilik Haviv:
at

Chris simmance:
and

Hilik Haviv:
the

Chris simmance:
the

Hilik Haviv:
beginning

Chris simmance:
next one, and you forget

Hilik Haviv:
is

Chris simmance:
to

Hilik Haviv:
that

Chris simmance:
actually

Hilik Haviv:
there

Chris simmance:
build

Hilik Haviv:
is

Chris simmance:
a business,

Hilik Haviv:
no one channel

Chris simmance:
because

Hilik Haviv:
that

Chris simmance:
it’s not

Hilik Haviv:
will

Chris simmance:
a

Hilik Haviv:
bring

Chris simmance:
business

Hilik Haviv:
you the success.

Chris simmance:
until you can’t

Hilik Haviv:
And

Chris simmance:
until

Hilik Haviv:
this

Chris simmance:
you don’t

Hilik Haviv:
is

Chris simmance:
need

Hilik Haviv:
a

Chris simmance:
to

Hilik Haviv:
mistake

Chris simmance:
be in it.

Hilik Haviv:
that I saw from

Chris simmance:
Um,

Hilik Haviv:
many of the

Chris simmance:
it’s

Hilik Haviv:
customers

Chris simmance:
a, it’s

Hilik Haviv:
that

Chris simmance:
a,

Hilik Haviv:
came

Chris simmance:
it’s

Hilik Haviv:
to us

Chris simmance:
a,

Hilik Haviv:
in the first

Chris simmance:
um,

Hilik Haviv:
few years.

Chris simmance:
a toy

Hilik Haviv:
When they come

Chris simmance:
until

Hilik Haviv:
to

Chris simmance:
you

Hilik Haviv:
the office

Chris simmance:
want,

Hilik Haviv:
and they

Chris simmance:
until

Hilik Haviv:
ask

Chris simmance:
you

Hilik Haviv:
you

Chris simmance:
exit.

Hilik Haviv:
to do, let’s say their Facebook or Facebook advertising, but they don’t think Google advertising, they don’t think Instagram or LinkedIn, today even TikTok, they don’t think email marketing, they don’t think SEO, they think one specific thing because of any reason, right? And the same thing

Chris simmance:
Hmm.

Hilik Haviv:
somebody else can come say, I want Google advertising, but they don’t think YouTube advertising might be a force and they don’t think, you know, email marketing to follow up. And they don’t think about up sales. And they don’t think about follow up within customers that are lost or anything like that. So something that I understood is that, and what we call omni-channel marketing, is that there is no one channel. So even though there are endless possibilities right now, and if I go to the extreme, the other side, you don’t want somebody to come and say, I want you to take care of everything. because

Chris simmance:
Is there something

Hilik Haviv:
they

Chris simmance:
that

Hilik Haviv:
really need

Chris simmance:
you did

Hilik Haviv:
an unlimited

Chris simmance:
relatively

Hilik Haviv:
budget

Chris simmance:
early

Hilik Haviv:
for

Chris simmance:
in

Hilik Haviv:
it.

Chris simmance:
the

Hilik Haviv:
But

Chris simmance:
agency’s

Hilik Haviv:
there needs to

Chris simmance:
life

Hilik Haviv:
be multiple channels that you work

Chris simmance:
that you

Hilik Haviv:
on. So

Chris simmance:
kind

Hilik Haviv:
what

Chris simmance:
of

Hilik Haviv:
I did,

Chris simmance:
stuck to?

Hilik Haviv:
training

Chris simmance:
It’s

Hilik Haviv:
my

Chris simmance:
been

Hilik Haviv:
team

Chris simmance:
something that was

Hilik Haviv:
and

Chris simmance:
successful,

Hilik Haviv:
myself

Chris simmance:
but

Hilik Haviv:
as well,

Chris simmance:
you really

Hilik Haviv:
is learning

Chris simmance:
realised

Hilik Haviv:
something

Chris simmance:
this

Hilik Haviv:
new

Chris simmance:
is our kind

Hilik Haviv:
every

Chris simmance:
of secret

Hilik Haviv:
single

Chris simmance:
source.

Hilik Haviv:
month.

Chris simmance:
What have you…

Hilik Haviv:
And that means

Chris simmance:
what’s

Hilik Haviv:
if

Chris simmance:
been

Hilik Haviv:
I’m

Chris simmance:
a…

Hilik Haviv:
an expert in

Chris simmance:
I’m holding

Hilik Haviv:
Google

Chris simmance:
on to that

Hilik Haviv:
advertising,

Chris simmance:
and I’m going to keep doing this.

Hilik Haviv:
now I want to know the Facebook platform. Now I want to know… TikTok platform now I want to know email marketing and when I say I want to know it’s not just going to you know Give me a demo. I’m the one who I’m doing a lot of demos. So I’m the one who wants to really understand a software that is Beneficial for us and Google by the way Google advertising that’s a software if you want So I went into this one and I trained my team

Chris simmance:
Hmm.

Hilik Haviv:
to learn something new So eventually we have expertise in multiple areas And eventually, if we take you a few years forward, that was very, very beneficial.

Chris simmance:
Mm-hmm.

Hilik Haviv:
That’s true. And you have to understand your team to read them in the right way to understand what fits

Chris simmance:
Hmm.

Hilik Haviv:
for each one of them. So you can send your media buyer to copywriting training if they’re not really into writing. Some people generate great ideas in their mind, but they don’t really implement it in writing. So you have to read your team and then fit that next skill within their character.

Chris simmance:
Yeah, well, you’re building an asset, a knowledge asset internally. And, you know, and the good thing is, you know, when a member of staff leaves and go somewhere else, they only have good things to say, because they got that new job because of how good they were in their previous job and how much you let them learn and things, but you got so much value

Hilik Haviv:
That’s

Chris simmance:
out of

Hilik Haviv:
true.

Chris simmance:
those people because they were

Hilik Haviv:
Again

Chris simmance:
doing something

Hilik Haviv:
another…

Chris simmance:
they loved, they were doing something they were good at and

Hilik Haviv:
the

Chris simmance:
like,

Hilik Haviv:
conversations with

Chris simmance:
people

Hilik Haviv:
the customers

Chris simmance:
feel

Hilik Haviv:
and we’re

Chris simmance:
good

Hilik Haviv:
learning

Chris simmance:
when they’ve

Hilik Haviv:
from the

Chris simmance:
learned

Hilik Haviv:
mistakes

Chris simmance:
something,

Hilik Haviv:
on their, or

Chris simmance:
when there’s a challenge that’s been overcome.

Hilik Haviv:
whatever they’re

Chris simmance:
You don’t

Hilik Haviv:
asking

Chris simmance:
feel

Hilik Haviv:
us to

Chris simmance:
great

Hilik Haviv:
do, right?

Chris simmance:
when you’re learning

Hilik Haviv:
One thing

Chris simmance:
something

Hilik Haviv:
that

Chris simmance:
that

Hilik Haviv:
I saw

Chris simmance:
you don’t

Hilik Haviv:
over the

Chris simmance:
want

Hilik Haviv:
years

Chris simmance:
to do.

Hilik Haviv:
is companies are trying

Chris simmance:
You know, if you think

Hilik Haviv:
to

Chris simmance:
back to

Hilik Haviv:
save

Chris simmance:
school,

Hilik Haviv:
on their marketing.

Chris simmance:
you think.

Hilik Haviv:
So, and that became one of the main things for us is that we want your marketing to be an income and not an expense. We’re not saving on marketing because marketing is the one that needs to bring you return, right? So if you’re saving on marketing, it means something is wrong. You’re not generating sales. And what I do, I take that mindset or that sentence and says, or that statement, and I say, I’m not saving on marketing. And this doesn’t mean the Google budget. This means also my team. So my

Chris simmance:
Yeah.

Hilik Haviv:
team are marketers

Chris simmance:
And that comes

Hilik Haviv:
at the

Chris simmance:
again

Hilik Haviv:
end of the day, whether they’re data

Chris simmance:
at the

Hilik Haviv:
analysts

Chris simmance:
certain expense

Hilik Haviv:
or

Chris simmance:
of

Hilik Haviv:
media

Chris simmance:
time

Hilik Haviv:
buyers

Chris simmance:
and resource on your side,

Hilik Haviv:
or, or

Chris simmance:
but

Hilik Haviv:
even

Chris simmance:
it

Hilik Haviv:
a Google

Chris simmance:
pays

Hilik Haviv:
specialist,

Chris simmance:
itself

Hilik Haviv:
right?

Chris simmance:
back. And

Hilik Haviv:
But

Chris simmance:
this is something

Hilik Haviv:
they’re

Chris simmance:
that

Hilik Haviv:
marketers at

Chris simmance:
a

Hilik Haviv:
the

Chris simmance:
lot of

Hilik Haviv:
end.

Chris simmance:
agency leaders

Hilik Haviv:
And I want

Chris simmance:
miss.

Hilik Haviv:
to

Chris simmance:
They, you know, they

Hilik Haviv:
invest

Chris simmance:
think, oh,

Hilik Haviv:
in

Chris simmance:
I don’t

Hilik Haviv:
the marketing

Chris simmance:
have the time for

Hilik Haviv:
and

Chris simmance:
that.

Hilik Haviv:
I invest

Chris simmance:
I’ll give them

Hilik Haviv:
in them. So eventually

Chris simmance:
the PDF

Hilik Haviv:
they bring also

Chris simmance:
guide

Hilik Haviv:
better results.

Chris simmance:
and let them learn this thing, because it will take half an hour to read that rather than four hours for training or over the course of several weeks. And it’s a, like a, a lost it’s a sunk cost fallacy, you think you’re spending on their on their salaries, but

Hilik Haviv:
So

Chris simmance:
actually

Hilik Haviv:
biggest

Chris simmance:
you

Hilik Haviv:
shit,

Chris simmance:
need to be spending on their brains

Hilik Haviv:
that was,

Chris simmance:
as much as giving them the money.

Hilik Haviv:
if you

Chris simmance:
And

Hilik Haviv:
take us a few years

Chris simmance:
as something

Hilik Haviv:
back, we were

Chris simmance:
you get

Hilik Haviv:
focusing

Chris simmance:
so much more from

Hilik Haviv:
on

Chris simmance:
people who

Hilik Haviv:
content.

Chris simmance:
feel valued and the good

Hilik Haviv:
So we

Chris simmance:
way

Hilik Haviv:
were

Chris simmance:
to show

Hilik Haviv:
content

Chris simmance:
value

Hilik Haviv:
creators.

Chris simmance:
isn’t just giving them cash.

Hilik Haviv:
That’s how the beginning of HVMA, in the first few years, content creators. And we created any type of content, from graphic to videos to writing content, to anything goes to your website, to your social media. And we were pretty good at it, and everything was good. And you know how people say content is the king, right? I a little bit disagree with that. I obviously think data is the king. because data is the most valuable asset on earth. But what happened is at some point, and that was somewhere in the middle, we started to realize that content is nice, but it doesn’t necessarily bring you sales. So you might have a great video, you’ll get a lot of followers maybe if it goes viral, and we had some viral videos over the years, but it’s not necessarily translating into sales if you don’t send them emails, if you don’t really retarget them, if you don’t… you know, really understand and give them relevant offers. So I think that was my biggest mistake is that we focus too much on content instead of focusing on the sales part and driving traffic to your channels all the time. And

Chris simmance:
Yeah, absolutely.

Hilik Haviv:
at some point we

Chris simmance:
Absolutely.

Hilik Haviv:
stopped providing

Chris simmance:
So just talked

Hilik Haviv:
that

Chris simmance:
about

Hilik Haviv:
service

Chris simmance:
a thing that

Hilik Haviv:
of

Chris simmance:
you’ve done

Hilik Haviv:
operating

Chris simmance:
well

Hilik Haviv:
your Facebook

Chris simmance:
that you

Hilik Haviv:
page,

Chris simmance:
know, is

Hilik Haviv:
operating

Chris simmance:
a big

Hilik Haviv:
your

Chris simmance:
part

Hilik Haviv:
Instagram

Chris simmance:
of the business.

Hilik Haviv:
page. That

Chris simmance:
What have you

Hilik Haviv:
became

Chris simmance:
done

Hilik Haviv:
just

Chris simmance:
that’s,

Hilik Haviv:
a department

Chris simmance:
you know,

Hilik Haviv:
instead

Chris simmance:
not

Hilik Haviv:
of

Chris simmance:
so

Hilik Haviv:
the

Chris simmance:
good?

Hilik Haviv:
main work that

Chris simmance:
What

Hilik Haviv:
we

Chris simmance:
happened?

Hilik Haviv:
do. We shifted

Chris simmance:
What was your

Hilik Haviv:
into

Chris simmance:
biggest?

Hilik Haviv:
campaigns.

Chris simmance:
Ah, shit.

Hilik Haviv:
And at that point, we also went a lot into e-commerce because that’s measurable. So we can actually create campaigns for you. We’ll give you some things just for the campaign to be consistent, to be on your channels, but we’re not gonna operate your Facebook on daily basis like we did before. We don’t care about the content that you upload on your Facebook. Of course, it needs to be consistent with the campaign. But we’ve focused on the campaign. We focus on the results, on the KPIs, and have to make sure that at the end of the day, you pay us X, we’re bringing X times three,

Chris simmance:
Mmm.

Hilik Haviv:
X times four. That’s what we want. And that’s what you want to hear as our customer. Everything is measurable,

Chris simmance:
Yeah, yeah.

Hilik Haviv:
measurable results. Here’s the data. Here’s why something works here. Why it doesn’t. So, well, that’s a very open question. Right, right. So because I already said track everything and that would be maybe the main thing, but I’ll say if you just open a new agency

Chris simmance:
Mmm.

Hilik Haviv:
right now, think about your plan and which type of customers are you going to get and based on this one, build your team. So don’t just go to say, okay, I need a social media manager and I need a data analyst and I need a media buyer because your customers or the one that will come through your door tomorrow might need something else and now you’re missing the person or you’re giving a teammate a test that they’re not really comfortable with and they’re not going to generate the great results. So really think you’re going e-commerce, you want a copywriter, you want a media buyer. You want a web designer who can create a landing page very quick or up sales or build a funnel for you. So really think which way you’re going

Chris simmance:
Mm-hmm.

Hilik Haviv:
to go. And you can tell that by the way I’m going to advertise or the way I’m going to present my company. And

Chris simmance:
Yeah,

Hilik Haviv:
based on this

Chris simmance:
yeah, yeah.

Hilik Haviv:
one, build a team. If you don’t have a big budget to take 15 people right at the beginning, which most agencies don’t, choose carefully the positions. and try to bring specialists to each position.

Chris simmance:
Yeah.

Hilik Haviv:
So don’t bring one person, social media manager,

Chris simmance:
And with

Hilik Haviv:
let

Chris simmance:
the data,

Hilik Haviv:
them write

Chris simmance:
you can prove it, which is great.

Hilik Haviv:
content, let them do SEO, let them do the advertising, let them do this and that. That’s just gonna bring average results.

Chris simmance:
Yeah, totally

Hilik Haviv:
Bring somebody

Chris simmance:
love

Hilik Haviv:
who’s

Chris simmance:
that.

Hilik Haviv:
a specialist. I prefer

Chris simmance:
So

Hilik Haviv:
to bring

Chris simmance:
if someone’s

Hilik Haviv:
a Google

Chris simmance:
just

Hilik Haviv:
advertising

Chris simmance:
listening to this

Hilik Haviv:
specialist

Chris simmance:
now and they’re thinking of starting

Hilik Haviv:
and let

Chris simmance:
their

Hilik Haviv:
them do

Chris simmance:
own

Hilik Haviv:
Google

Chris simmance:
agency,

Hilik Haviv:
advertising

Chris simmance:
what one piece of advice

Hilik Haviv:
and not

Chris simmance:
would

Hilik Haviv:
something

Chris simmance:
you give

Hilik Haviv:
else

Chris simmance:
them?

Hilik Haviv:
because that will bring me better success.

Chris simmance:
Yeah, you’ve got one piece of advice, though.

Hilik Haviv:
I tell you something, there’s one more thing that I’ll add to that. Over the years we changed and now we present it. There’s marketing and there’s professional marketing. So you can go hire somebody just because they’re cheaper in price per hour or something and they will do some marketing for you, but it’s not going to be professional marketing. There is, you know, today every teenager can post. Content on Facebook. You don’t really need an agency for it. You don’t need a social media manager for it in the same matter We say anybody with an arm can throw a football, but not everybody can do it professionally So just make sure if you want to get the right results take a professional build the right team and then look for the success

Chris simmance:
Mm.

Hilik Haviv:
Thank you for having me, I appreciate it.

Chris simmance:
everyone who’s listening to this, listen to this man. He knew he knows what he’s talking about. Thank you. Mm-hmm. Correct, very much so. And for those of you listening in the UK, we have a version of that that is if you have not everyone who has an arm can throw a rugby ball. Thank you so much for coming on the podcast. Lovely to speak to you. And in our next episode, we’ll be speaking with another agency leader to hear their story and the lessons they learned along the way. Thanks very much for listening.

everyone who’s listening to this, listen to this man. He knew he knows what he’s talking about. Thank you. Mm-hmm. Correct, very much so. And for those of you listening in the UK, we have a version of that that is if you have not everyone who has an arm can throw a rugby ball. Thank you so much for coming on the podcast. Lovely to speak to you. And in our next episode, we’ll be speaking with another agency leader to hear their story and the lessons they learned along the way. Thanks very much for listening.