VO Guy:

Hello, and thanks for coming along to And We Have an Office Dog. The digital agency podcast where we talk to agency owner directors and learn more about what makes them tick. From the things that make them similar to the things they’d rather have known sooner. Where they’ve had success and where they’ve learned some hard lessons. All will be revealed with your host, Chris Simmance, the agency coach. And he’ll be talking to a different awesome agency person in each episode, asking them four questions and seeing where the conversation takes us over the next 25 minutes. Okay. So let us begin. Over to you, Chris.

Thanks. Voice over guy and on the podcast today we got Andy, the CEO of Adido. How are you doing?

Very well. Thank you very much. Good to be here Chris. Thanks for having me.

No, no trouble at all. No trouble at all. So first and foremost, we’ve had this conversation before we went live. It’s pronounced added. Oh.

Uh, I sounded like an idiot when we came on. I was trying to get it right, saying added. Oh, which sounds stupid at the mall, I listened to myself and but you also, but you would just saying that your kids have a better at the English language, the new and they’ve actually told you that even you pronounce it wrong. So.

Yep.

Uh-huh.

Yes, yeah. English is a very strange language. When you start looking at how it’s comprised and how we do actually say things, so don’t feel bad at all.

Just imagine writing a couple of meta descriptions and not knowing what you’re saying and so so the first thing first and foremost, this is a really good opportunity for you to give a doe or plug. Tell us what you do, what you do best, what’s your superpower as things like that.

Sure. So, yeah, we are ADI day where I guess what you’d call a full service digital agency. But the way we describe ourselves as being very, very commercially focused and we hope commercially focused businesses achieve more from their marketing or website spend. And that’s really about building better websites, improving digital marketing approaches and processes and putting really good measurement in place to understand how those metrics work, which I guess is a lot, a lot of agencies D but we are very, very commercially driven and we hate fluff.

Uh-huh.

So we’re very candid about how we work and the way we do things.

Yep.

Yeah, I think I think the wooliness can come from a lot of agencies where where they know how to do the services, but they’re not sure why they’re doing the services and quite a lot of the time, if you’d like, you say, if your commercial focused then you, you, you get how a business runs and then you can the marketing a bit is just about the the audience and the people. And then just the delivery, making sure that actually matches what the the business is trying to do. And I can’t tell you, I I’m sure you you you can, you’ve got examples of this, but there’s icon silly.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Only times I’ve spoken to people in the past, but I was running the agency to say.

And what was it? What, what? What’s your? What’s your budget? And they say, oh, don’t know. You tell us what? What it will cost. And we’re like, well, it’s not so much about that. We need to know what you need out of it and how much at what what what are you looking at cost per acquisition basis what you how are you trying to to to solve the the the square the circle of we need to spend some money in order to get some return what’s the return you need and I’ll be able to tell you how we can get there how many how many times do you get there and they go that’s too expensive or I didn’t know it was going to cost this much or how.

Yep.

Yeah.

Yep.

Yeah.

How how did you get to that that number? Will you run the business, mate? So you should know how young you should know your numbers, yeah.

Yep, you should night but.

And then secondly, like if they can’t tell me that budget or they don’t have any clue about their own measures, then again, I’ve qualified them out because it’s not worth my teams time, which is quite precious to to put those ideas in front of you if they actually there, you don’t know yourself. So we are being a bit harder on that. And I think that means we get better opportunities which hopefully convert. So let’s see.

Yeah, absolutely.

Yeah.

Yeah, I think I think with all agencies at it, there’s that there’s that thing where it’s super hard really to sort of say no sometimes and saying that’s, yeah. And and I think you you get better at it over time, especially when you know what clients work and specially work for your agency.

It’s very hard.

Yep.

I mean that there are they’ve been many, to be honest and.

Uh.

Yeah.

Uh-huh.

Yeah.

Growth dropping Lawson nearly crashing, and then rebirth and coming out the other side.

M.

Yeah, it’s seven. I mean, first of all, credit to you for, for being honest about that ’cause. It’s really hard for as an agency owner to to, to, to to say those sorts of things. And it’s it’s, it’s another thing entirely to to come out of that sort of thing from from that that kind of like you say the the growth of the crash, the rebirth, the rebirth is obviously been quite successful and but yeah, it it. I think it can it’s feast and famine when it comes to agency sometimes and sometimes when when you’re starting out.

K.

And everything is growing. The feast keeps going. ’cause, you’ve got a marketing machine, but systems and processes and cash in the bank are the things that keep it going. If you don’t have all of the systems and the processes for the people that you’re throwing in the door and the Cash Cash in the bank to cash flow, all of the other stuff. But it’s, you know, it’s a ticking time bomb, I guess.

Yeah.

And that’s what it was for us. Cash caught up with us in the end because we’d spent a lot of it and trying to restructure. We haven’t really got enough in the bank to beat. Do the big thing that we wanted to do. And because you don’t have enough money in the bank, your then constantly frustrated, you know, trying to new, new trying to do new things that might work and they don’t then work because you haven’t invested enough and he’ll give enough time, which then means you don’t know enough cash. And so you end up in this semi vicious cycle of trying to do things you shouldn’t. You shouldn’t be doing, but you feel like you have to to try and get to the next stage and.

Yeah.

M.

M.

Yeah.

No.

It’s, it is and I I guess The thing is learning from it and and you know that that comes with maturity of running a business. I think you know not to suggest that you rebrand but you ought to think about calling yourself a Phoenix agency perhaps.

Yeah.

M.

Yeah.

Yeah. No, no, I I, I agree. I think it’s a. It’s a strange thing I did. You know, when you go to conferences and things like that, you get people say or what do you do? You say I’ll run and agency one of the first things they ask is how many people do you have?

How many people?

Yeah.

Uh, not that many, but really profitable. Thanks.

Uh.

Yeah, well, quite boring actually. But never mind. Yeah.

Yeah, just a really boring agency you’ve never heard of us. Don’t worry about it. But we’re really good. Our clients know about us. We don’t need to have this conversation. Do you want beer? Yes, please. Thanks. Bye.

Yep.

E.

And that’s why I mean I I got it. I got sucked. I think we got sucked into that world. And you know, there’s agency groups are great, but you do feel there’s a lot of of ego that goes around with it. And if you get sucked into it, it’s very sometimes hard to go well. We just grew by one person last year. And I just feel a bit embarrassed by it.

So.

M.

Yeah.

Well, no.

Yeah, I I I, I got suckered into it essentially in a similar way years ago. And it wasn’t until I realized that, yeah, actually I’m pretty lazy. So it wasn’t until I got to the point where I was like going through another hiring process as like I think there’s a different way of doing this. This isn’t success. I feel like I’m miserable doing this. This isn’t successful.

Yeah.

And and and and I think one with when I do the agency mastermind sessions or or any of the the the the work with any of the agencies that I spend time with the the key part is like just no ******** we all know that we all have the same problems. We all know that if we’re honest about it will be able to help each other better and and if you’re in a group with people who you know are on this you’re going to be more likely to to you know to show you vulnerability and things like that. And I think it’s really really it’s really important to do.

Yep.

Uh-huh.

Yeah.

Yep.

Yep.

What one piece of advice would you give to yourself?

Uh, I think it’s probably just what we’ve touched upon, which is cash is king really. And if you have cash in the bank, it gives you freedom. And I think particularly in early days, you know sales were sales, again, particularly hard. It’s always hard, you know, trying to win clients is very tricky, particularly when as we were, we were 22 and out of university and didn’t think what the hell we’re doing. Frankly that was very tricky.

M.

Yep.

But you know, by not having enough, I guess you know it comes in. This comes into like then billable hours and charging the right amount, et cetera, et cetera. All things were very naive to. But if he didn’t, if we didn’t have the cash in the bank, then it was very, very hard to.

They feel like you have freedom and I think that’s again why we’re in this position now where we can say no to some clients because we don’t need to go and win the next piece of business card for paying the bills and. And so if you can build up that reserve, it dubs gives the opportunity to be more selective, go to different things, invest.

Yep.

And then again, it’s probably a very boring thing, but cash is king, and I’ve learned the hard way that if you take your eye off that ball, then you’re in a bad place.

Yeah.

Yeah.

No, because.

You know 22 and you think you know, what does? Everyone is well, he’s old farts. No, it’s very hard to listen. And I guess that’s a lot of a lot of businesses. People have got the expertise and knowledge. I guess what you’re doing is, you know, well, I’ve done all these mistakes. Let me tell you what not to do and you just need to hopefully open your ears and listen and have a taste of it because I think it’s probably thing we didn’t have in the early days is that agency support there wasn’t anything really around like you do like, you know, agency collector agents, hackers. I mean, there’s lots of them now, which are great.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Ask.

Yeah, yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah, I think I I think one of the one of the things that is uh and and you kind of just suggested it by saying you wouldn’t really have listened to you and devices that you know I can sit there and pontificate and coach and mentor and give some advice and give a bunch of templates. But it it’s for the person who’s listening to actually be ready to hear it and and and there’s sometimes where where I have you know a bit of a chemistry session with a with an agency owner or a Co founders and you get there the feeling that they’re not quite ready.

Yeah.

Yes.

To act on it. It’s a lot of a lot of nodding and Oh yeah, that sounds great, but, but actually you’re not. You’ve got to be ready to to listen and act, act on it and and you know, it’s very easy and quite a lot of agency coaches is we’ll take those people on, put them through a six month program and at the end of it go where you just didn’t do it. That’s why I didn’t work well. They weren’t ready for it yet. They need to update.

Yeah.

Yeah, you shouldn’t have taken their money.

Yeah. When? When someone when someone asks for advice or support, then they’re ready or usually they’re ready, at least so.

Yeah.

Yeah, I think I think I think so that bit like when we are pitching to clients, you know if they have had some pain in the past I think it then helps make better decisions and I guess similar in the agency world of you know well I’ve I’ve tried that and yeah, **** I nearly went bust or you know we did we hired the wrong person. You know having that pain and something to learn from his is very, very valuable. Definitely. Any any lessons that are ever lost it’s just different ways of looking at.

Yeah, yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah. Well, if you if you’ve, if you’ve got a potential client that you’ve gone to directly, you’ve outreached directly to them and they didn’t know you from Adam beforehand.

Yep.

That the sales are lot harder ’cause they’re not ready if they if they’ve come to you and they said we know we’ve got a problem here, we’re not sure what it is. Can you help? Then they’re ready to listen. It’s the same. It’s the same with with agency folk. And we’re like naturally pick edit. Because, I mean, we were silly enough to start agencies. So, you know, you’ve got to have something wrong with you and it’s gonna take a lot longer to get it through your head.

A lot.

Yeah.

Yeah.

I’m so beyond the beyond the the cash is king and you know kind of going through the the growth drop grow and sort of cycle what have you. What what’s one thing that you kind of learned that you’ve that you’ve either taken on as a lesson or learn that works really well and then used it up until you know up to now as a I don’t know you learned it the hard way for future success style type thing.

Yeah.

He’s starting to sound like an accountant, Andy.

I know well, it’s the blue shirt I’m wearing today, but no, really like setting the targets, having clarity on them and then getting. I mean, we’ve evolved a system which is again not very glamorous, but uses Google Sheets, which are all linked together to to, to piece together. If I win this piece of work. But when it’s going to be invoiced and when my cash, it’s the bank and I’ve got that system and overview. And by having the targets very, very clear, it drives the right behavior in terms of like, how are we are we winning work that helps us to hit our target.

M.

M.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yep.

Yeah.

I’m taking that, I guess more mature, more grown up view of it because I think agency owners start as something they do very good work as a designer or as an architect or a developer. But then you have to pick yourself from the business owner position to.

In like not do those things and that’s again a a transition. You have to go through.

And that’s again, it’s a really hard thing because when you start, you know what you’re doing.

Yeah.

Uh, you’re really good at whatever it is that you started your agency’s based on.

Yeah. And people will come to you and they give you referrals and great, you know, and I’ve gone from me and now it’s three of us. Brilliant. But now you know, you can’t be doing the work he needs other people to do the work and let him go as a very hard skill to have, I think.

Exactly.

Uh, yeah, totally agree. Totally agree. Do it so.

If there’s someone who’s listening to his podcast right now and they’re looking to start an agency tomorrow or this year, and they and they’ve been waiting all the way through this podcast, they haven’t. They’ve not interested any of the stuff we’ve just talked about. They’re just waiting for this one piece of advice from you.

Yep.

Oh God.

What is it? Assuming they’re ready to listen?

I’m I think I’m on again. On reflection, this is something I’m looking at or thinking about it certainly a lot in, in, in even with a D dos, how do you get the to be the best in the world? I had a chat with another agency owner last week and I know that Peter Chapman, well, companies talked about it quite a bit. How did you become, not necessarily the best in the world, but the one of the best in your field at a certain thing and you know they talk about us, we are very commercially driven as an agency, but I’m sure there are hundreds of other agencies that say exactly the same thing.

I was is there an opportunity for you to be the best web designer for glass manufacturers? Is there a cup of tea for you to be the best social media company for second hand cars or something like that where there is enough scale and an opportunity but most agencies and most businesses are not focused on that very specific niche and I think there’s an opportunity or if I was going to start tomorrow, oh, it pick a thing that I I I like be I’m interested in B&C. There’s enough.

M.

Yeah.

Volume and opportunity in it to go right. I’m going to be the best in the world at this thing. I’m gonna focus specifically on this. We’ve tried this in ADI Day. We are very travel driven. We are very. So we’ve got a lot of history of heritage and travel and tourism because of their lot in this sort of finance sector. And I think those are the two things we’ve always tried to major on.

Yep.

But if I starting tomorrow, the blank piece of paper, I would just go, right? We only do credit card promotion in Facebook or something like that, because I think if you can get a reputation, some of these sectors and and they they’re very small people just job hop from different companies who company, they’ll bring him with you, they’ll get worried about. You know there’s a best. They felt the best in the world at this. We need to get involved et cetera, et cetera. And I think you can create a very good process driven approach that can you can probably charge the premium for which other people are not looking at.

Yeah, yeah.

They go to.

Yeah.

Well, often if you’re the one that they that is the go to your. Your name is synonymous with a thing, an issue or a type of service.

Yeah.

Yep.

Uh-huh.

Yep.

Uh-huh.

Uh-huh.

Yeah.

Yep.

Yep.

And then you say it right. Cool.

Exactly.

It. Oh yeah, it’s really easy.

We’re gonna start tomorrow. Chris, come in. You.

Yeah. Alright. Oh, God. No, thank you. I’ll never going back. I I’ve got PTSD from running agency’s. That’s that’s why I do what I do. Because it’s like you say, learned all of the lessons the hard way in a sense.

Ah.

Yep.

Uh, it’s it’s the most expensive MBA I think I’ve ever had. Uh, but at the same time, it’s something which.

Uh.

Yeah, yeah.

And so.

Kind of being fresh out of the trenches and running an agency coaching business means that I, you know, I can. I can talk to you and we can we we can talk on a on the same level about the same types of problems in the same type of industry knowing how it works and.

Yeah.

That’s like when I when I, when you’re on one side of the fence, a bit like a therapist or therapists probably got their own mental health issues, but they’re there to help you because they know how to help you. So you know, I’m. I’m rocking in the corner on my own and then, yeah, OK. Well, great. Well, start another podcast for agency owners. Interview me.

Yeah.

Sorry, we’re here for you. It’s fine.

So thanks very much for that. That’s that’s incredible. It’s a good bit of advice. I think that you know kind of try and niche down into it either a an industry type or a delivery type and or both and and get the numbers right to start with. If you get the numbers right to start with, you can then kind of on a piece of paper work out whether or not that is viable. You know there’s only 15 something, some things in an area then yeah, you can’t do it.

So again, that’s probably the only caveat is like, pick your niche and then figure out if actually they can spend what you need to achieve when you’re bits of paper you just mentioned.

Absolutely no, absolutely. It’s fantastic. It’s fantastic piece of advice there. So thank you very much for giving that advice and also thank you very much for coming on the podcast.

Absolutely. Thanks so much for having me. And yeah, we’ll we’ll meet next week and I’ll I’ll do it the other way around.

Yes, absolutely. God sake of terrified. And on the next podcast we have a different agency leader talking about their journey and the things they’ve learned along the way. So thanks very much for listening.